Refusing Promotion to Captain

You’re right, flying all night in the subarctic dark and landing back in the Seattle gloom just as the sun is coming up is fine, everyone’s idea of a good time

Dude look. It may come as a surprise but I'm not trying to upset you. I was just wondering if there was some physiological basis for red eyes being worse during the winter than summer.

Personally the PIT short back was brutal because the sun was in our eyes the entire return. But I wouldn't call it a science based deduction on one being worse than the other.
 
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There is a lot of research out there, going back to the mid 1950s, showing that daylight mitigates fatigue to some extent. It is much easier to operate in your WOCL if the sun is out than if it is dark, and your eyes are agreeing with your mind that it is time to sleep. Same reason most guys turn on the overhead cockpit lights on a red eye.
 
There is a lot of research out there, going back to the mid 1950s, showing that daylight mitigates fatigue to some extent. It is much easier to operate in your WOCL if the sun is out than if it is dark, and your eyes are agreeing with your mind that it is time to sleep. Same reason most guys turn on the overhead cockpit lights on a red eye.

Thanks. I was wondering. I always liked when I got in to the hotel when it was still dark in winter. Typically a VNY-TEB in the X during the winter. Then I could get back to sleep. Now that I can use my iPhone as a white noise generator I’ve been sleeping much better during the day. The cleaners still woke me up in HNL yesterday but I managed to get my 4+4 in and the red eye back wasn’t bad. I’m back on call at 9:30 tonight…


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Thanks. I was wondering. I always liked when I got in to the hotel when it was still dark in winter. Typically a VNY-TEB in the X during the winter. Then I could get back to sleep. Now that I can use my iPhone as a white noise generator I’ve been sleeping much better during the day. The cleaners still woke me up in HNL yesterday but I managed to get my 4+4 in and the red eye back wasn’t bad. I’m back on call at 9:30 tonight…

For a while, our overnight to Boston flight got in around 530am. In the winter time you could unload, take the van, check in, and get to your room and get the curtains closed before it even started getting light out. Was easy to go to sleep for two or three hours. Now in the summer we hit the terminator line over Toronto, and it's really difficult to get to sleep after grinding it out in full daylight for the last two hours. Same thing when going on rest break just after the sun comes up.
 
Thanks. I was wondering. I always liked when I got in to the hotel when it was still dark in winter. Typically a VNY-TEB in the X during the winter. Then I could get back to sleep. Now that I can use my iPhone as a white noise generator I’ve been sleeping much better during the day. The cleaners still woke me up in HNL yesterday but I managed to get my 4+4 in and the red eye back wasn’t bad. I’m back on call at 9:30 tonight…


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Oh man, the JFK one is a nightmare in that sense. Been a few months since I did it last, but there was construction beginning at construction worker hours, and it was like banging on my wall. Another time, group of people in room next door decided to crank their stereo up to 11 and listen to pitbull for a couple hours, though fortunately I didn't hear another peep from them after they left to go wherever......and that was the night before the fly home on 33 hr layover, so not really redeye related (other than how I got there). But that hotel has cardboard walls for being new and somewhat upscale.
 
Oh man, the JFK one is a nightmare in that sense. Been a few months since I did it last, but there was construction beginning at construction worker hours, and it was like banging on my wall. Another time, group of people in room next door decided to crank their stereo up to 11 and listen to pitbull for a couple hours, though fortunately I didn't hear another peep from them after they left to go wherever......and that was the night before the fly home on 33 hr layover, so not really redeye related (other than how I got there). But that hotel has cardboard walls for being new and somewhat upscale.

Mr Woooooooorrrrrrrlllllllllddddddddd Wiiiiiidddddeeee


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I'm 4th from the bottom in Seattle. This means red eye reserve and an endless assignment of terrible red eyes. Like the FAI turn. Leave Seattle around midnight. Get to Fairbanks around 2AM. Sometimes swap airplanes and then fly back and arrive at Seattle around 6-7AM. Battling the morning commute traffic to get to a bed.

That’s not a redeye, that’s a pinkeye!
 
Junior captain can mean slow advancement, poor schedules and abuse by crew scheduling. My last two trips, I had FO's that were senior to me, and I'm pretty senior systemwide.

Sometimes, seniority is stratified. I was (I think) single-digit seniority on the 320 in LAX but if you saw the bottom line holder, our schedules weren't that much different except I had the better redeye. LOL

25 yrs at Delta and being a FO by choice? Dang son.
 
25 yrs at Delta and being a FO by choice? Dang son.

Dude, if you're going to be my ever-present stalker, at least get my seniority correct! If I'm at year 26 and a few FO's were senior to me, that would be 25+x.

Seriously, international wide body FO is the "L/D Max" of career positions. The most money for the most days off with the least amount of responsibility. Plus they generally out-earn most captains, including me.
 
Dude, if you're going to be my ever-present stalker, at least get my seniority correct! If I'm at year 26 and a few FO's were senior to me, that would be 25+x.

Seriously, international wide body FO is the "L/D Max" of career positions. The most money for the most days off with the least amount of responsibility. Plus they generally out-earn most captains, including me.

Could it also be fair to say that an individual like that may have tried upgrade to the max allowed times at Delta before being fired (at our shop, your 3rd strike for upgrade you're basically done for), and says if I can't risk a CA upgrade failure, I'll just bid time on the highest paying FO plane?

I'm assuming a 26+ yr Delta narrowbody CA can set up a PBS bid that gets him three 4-day trips for the month with 65-75+ hrs and that's it. That was our princess VX schedule. Never done overseas trips but I'd imagine time zone changes get old, fast. Even more so in your 50s and 60s. 3 domestic trips per month is already semi-retired within your same timezone, +/- 3 hrs tops.


But of course, to each his own.
 
Could it also be fair to say that an individual like that may have tried upgrade to the max allowed times at Delta before being fired (at our shop, your 3rd strike for upgrade you're basically done for), and says if I can't risk a CA upgrade failure, I'll just bid time on the highest paying FO plane?

I'm assuming a 26+ yr Delta narrowbody CA can set up a PBS bid that gets him three 4-day trips for the month with 65-75+ hrs and that's it. That was our princess VX schedule. Never done overseas trips but I'd imagine time zone changes get old, fast. Even more so in your 50s and 60s. 3 domestic trips per month is already semi-retired within your same timezone, +/- 3 hrs tops.


But of course, to each his own.
Your life might be improved if you'd put down your pencil and calculator.
 
Could it also be fair to say that an individual like that may have tried upgrade to the max allowed times at Delta before being fired (at our shop, your 3rd strike for upgrade you're basically done for), and says if I can't risk a CA upgrade failure, I'll just bid time on the highest paying FO plane?

I'm assuming a 26+ yr Delta narrowbody CA can set up a PBS bid that gets him three 4-day trips for the month with 65-75+ hrs and that's it. That was our princess VX schedule. Never done overseas trips but I'd imagine time zone changes get old, fast. Even more so in your 50s and 60s. 3 domestic trips per month is already semi-retired within your same timezone, +/- 3 hrs tops.


But of course, to each his own.

Domestic is rough. International, at least for me, is wonderful. I’m always well-rested, well-fed and I’ve already taken off ten pounds by being ablue to eschew fast food and walk until my ankles scream on layovers.

Like today, I’ll get to Detroit about 1300, take a couple hour nap, see what the CPO has to munch on, hit brief, fly for maybe 2.5 hours, sleep another 2.5 hours, fly another 2.5 hours, then hit the layover city about 2300 ‘body clock time’ then sleep maybe 5-7 hours (whereas I sleep about 4h at home). Wake up, work out, go explore the city, meet the crew for happy hour and dinner if they aren’t morons and take a nice after-dinner walk, back to bed around 2100, pop a melatonin and sleep for 8. Wake up, work out, light breakfast, then fly back.

On the four-pilot trips to Asia, it’s even better and more breaks.

That’s my routine international.

There’s no domestic equivalent to the quality of life as a senior widebody first officer and you will outearn your captain. If I showed you @DPApilot’s schedule, as a new hire even, you’ll think “Hot damn, does he know how good he has It?” :) And he’s a probie.
 
Could it also be fair to say that an individual like that may have tried upgrade to the max allowed times at Delta before being fired (at our shop, your 3rd strike for upgrade you're basically done for), and says if I can't risk a CA upgrade failure, I'll just bid time on the highest paying FO plane?

I'm assuming a 26+ yr Delta narrowbody CA can set up a PBS bid that gets him three 4-day trips for the month with 65-75+ hrs and that's it. That was our princess VX schedule. Never done overseas trips but I'd imagine time zone changes get old, fast. Even more so in your 50s and 60s. 3 domestic trips per month is already semi-retired within your same timezone, +/- 3 hrs tops.


But of course, to each his own.
On my fleet in my base, the top 62 FOs could be a captain on the same plane in base but choose not to. The most junior of those 62 has been on property 26 years.
 
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