Near miss at DCA this morning. Be careful out there.

[GroundPilot]

Happened today on shift was not my flight though. I'm glad both pilots had situational awareness to stop. Looks like just a cluster with all of those controllers, multiple frequencies and lack of situational awareness going on

View: https://youtu.be/yooJmu30DxY?si=leQgZk3Yw3C8nk0h

 

[nc1982]

Happened today on shift was not my flight though. I'm glad both pilots had situational awareness to stop. Looks like just a cluster with all of those controllers, multiple frequencies and lack of situational awareness going on

View: https://youtu.be/yooJmu30DxY?si=leQgZk3Yw3C8nk0h

You guys do an awesome job with what you have available there in DCA, but man to say this airport is a cluster is an understatement. I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more at this airport.

 

[Richman]

Flew a ton out of DCA back in my Henson days (that’s Piedmont (not the real one) for you youngin’s).

Did a lot of visual approaches up the Anacostia (night was a, ah, challenge) and multiple runway assignments. Back in those pre-9/11 days, they’d vector you right up to the literal edge of the P-space, which you got to know from the streets.

That said, never had to go around all that much.

 

[Michigan_Flyer]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yooJmu30DxY

 

[🦈💜]

Gross.

 

[GroundPilot]

You guys do an awesome job with what you have available there in DCA, but man to say this airport is a cluster is an understatement. I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more at this airport.

Ah meant that I work for one of the airlines, not ATC. But yeah it's a crazy airport

 

[BobDDuck]

Flew a ton out of DCA back in my Henson days (that’s Piedmont (not the real one) for you youngin’s).

Did a lot of visual approaches up the Anacostia (night was a, ah, challenge) and multiple runway assignments. Back in those pre-9/11 days, they’d vector you right up to the literal edge of the P-space, which you got to know from the streets.

That said, never had to go around all that much.

I never got to do an arrival via the Anacostia but I did a bunch of runway 4 departures. V1 was around 90 knots but it could be a huge time saver on going to the Potomac and all the way around if you were northeast bound.

 

[Murdoughnut]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

 

[derg]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

Not saying that things went pear-shaped, because they did, but by virtue of the descriptions, there's a lot of 'drama'.

 

[scooter2525]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

SOP in the manuals will dictate what to do after a rejected take off.

 

[thepotato232]

I'm not familiar with JetBlue policy - is there a "drop everything and get to the gate ASAP" policy in play after a runway incursion? Fifteen minutes stopped before the return to gate suggests they brought someone else into the decision making process there. Also not to drag SWA based on just the animation, but copying the tower number before they cleared the active made my eyebrow twitch.

 

[rausda27]

I'm not familiar with JetBlue policy - is there a "drop everything and get to the gate ASAP" policy in play after a runway incursion? Fifteen minutes stopped before the return to gate suggests they brought someone else into the decision making process there. Also not to drag SWA based on just the animation, but copying the tower number before they cleared the active made my eyebrow twitch.

Perhaps the animation wasn’t accurate of their position while taking the number?

 

[thepotato232]

That's my assumption as well until we hear otherwise.

 

[killbilly]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

I don’t want to create a de-rail here but GA pilots need to stop describing themselves as “lowly” in an airline context.

I get why. Language is what it is. But this needs to stop.

Different. Not lowly.

 

[CFI A&P]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

It could be that a phone call to maintenance for RTO turn time (brake cooling) is necessary, or below dispatch fuel, or company policy to contact CPO and discuss a plan of action. An airplane I used to fly involved looking at a performance chart to calculate brake energy used during the RTO (gross weight + elevation + density altitude + ground speed at the time of the reject + hypothetical brake energy required for another reject) if a takeoff is attempted = X minutes cooling. One friend tells me that at their shop this sort of situation would get them the rest of the day off. Their company's thought is of a second event occurring (even if completely unrelated) they want a fresh crew involved instead of "Blue Star Airlines flight Flight 305 had an incident earlier in the day is a contributing factor..."

 

[knot4u]

It could be that a phone call to maintenance for RTO turn time (brake cooling) is necessary, or below dispatch fuel, or company policy to contact CPO and discuss a plan of action. An airplane I used to fly involved looking at a performance chart to calculate brake energy used during the RTO (gross weight + elevation + density altitude + ground speed at the time of the reject + hypothetical brake energy required for another reject) if a takeoff is attempted = X minutes cooling. One friend tells me that at their shop this sort of situation would get them the rest of the day off. Their company's thought is of a second event occurring (even if completely unrelated) they want a fresh crew involved instead of "Blue Star Airlines flight Flight 305 had an incident earlier in the day is a contributing factor..."

Hot brakes are no joke. I'm not going to say where, what type or when I was working at a certain place and my supervisor while possessing valuable social skills was very deficient when it came to the technical aspect of his job. We had an airplane with six wheels come in with a squawk about chattering brakes, there's a procedure in the AMM to rinse the brakes with distilled water so that's what he did. The next day he had the crew come back in for a high speed taxi test. It was all very jovial when the crew showed up and they taxied out to basically accomplish an aborted take off, the first one went so well they decided to try it again just to confirm what they'd felt. It was not a busy day and they taxied back and did it again. By this time the brakes were overheated (this airplane might've had a brake temp indicator but introducing that info would seem like placing blame). All four MLG wheel fuse plugs decided simultaneously that finally they can accomplish their suicide mission and vented the pressure in the tires. No one lost their job. And that's how you get four overhauled wheels.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I’m glad all are okay, obviously an ATC error.



That said, did SWA not look at Runway 4 before crossing? The angle is actually perfect. It’s slanted from their view allowing a clear view…?

 

[cmac88]

Certainly plausible the SWA was already stopping

 

[Minuteman]

Ground cleared Southwest to cross Rwy 4 in the initial instructions (so good for everyone driving defensively). I'm used to talking with Tower before crossing active runways, but I know certain airports have different local policies.

Any idea what kind of coordination between Tower and Ground would normally occur at DCA? I.e., would be on a phone recording, or just a face-to-face exchange with no evidence beyond recollection?

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

As a lowly GA pilot, I'm always fascinated at how when an abort is done, the crew is like "nope, we done - back to the gate." I always assume hot brakes, but is it something else? This one didn't look like that long of a roll.

That’s a pretty short runway, at high gross they very likely would be above brake energy limits.

That being said- if I was the CP/CPO I’d pull
The crew off that flight kinda regardless. The next hours going to be a bunch of distraction/ reaction time. Let the crew do that over lunch vs up front at 500mph.