SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
I’d prefer they know/understand both…
JFK incursion - it’s like they’re not even trying anymore
- Thread starter Cherokee_Cruiser
- Start date
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
So speaking of knowing and understanding...
Regardless of when the coordination took place, the proper time to cross 4L/22R is immediately after a heavy jet departs and that is what the expectation should be. The SWR was an A330 (CWT-B) and the next aircraft in line (not depicted on the video but its on flightradar24) was a RPA E170 (CWT-G). The required wake turbulence separation is 5NM which means it is the perfect time to coordinate a crossing, crossing in front of the SWR would not have made sense for the situation.
The reason the SWR requested K3 intersection departure is because he was able to cut the line, it would have been more than 6 minutes had he waited in line for a full-length departure.
Regardless of when the coordination took place, the proper time to cross 4L/22R is immediately after a heavy jet departs and that is what the expectation should be. The SWR was an A330 (CWT-B) and the next aircraft in line (not depicted on the video but its on flightradar24) was a RPA E170 (CWT-G). The required wake turbulence separation is 5NM which means it is the perfect time to coordinate a crossing, crossing in front of the SWR would not have made sense for the situation.
The reason the SWR requested K3 intersection departure is because he was able to cut the line, it would have been more than 6 minutes had he waited in line for a full-length departure.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Me too. But that may be asking a lot, and I'd much rather triage the important stuff. I'm happy to have the conversation about the history of it with them, but it isn't going to make for a better/safer/smoother flight.
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
Precisely.
To add, I’ve read tons of accident reports/ articles. I’ve been exposed to tons of accident analysis reports/ animations in a variety of training events. But if someone asked me about the Cerritos disaster or PSA at San Diego I’d have a blank stare. Oh! You mean the ones where they crashed into GA planes? Yeah I know that one. United 232? Uh… oh! The Al Haynes one? Yeah, I know that one.
The 410 guys.
The Cargo one about dive and drive non-precision approaches.
The ran out of fuel focusing on the wrong emergency/CRM one.
Etc.
tlove482
Well-Known Member
Why is that even relevant? It's like needed to know where the seatbelt laws come from.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm not sure any of that is really required reading, so to speak. I educate myself because I think the topic is interesting, and I do feel like historical perspective can sometimes be important. And of course there might be some scenario, where things are about to go sideways, where someone might think "hey I've seen this before in an NTSB report and it didn't end well".......but most likely, probably not, most of the time. Either way, I do feel like it gives me some extra knowledge beyond what is required of me. I say that as an FO though, so I'm quite possibly wrong of course
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Well, not to know that TCAS came out of it.
In that particular case, it was us going to SFO, with me flying, and the FO just blurted out traffic in sight when I’m going for 28L, for traffic going to 28R. Not cool IMO. As PM, I never call approach traffic in sight , until I point it out to the PF and ask him/her, you got it and want me to call it in sight?
Turned out, FO had wrong airplane in sight that he (we) called. It took us a bit to find the actual correct airplane.
Anyway.
I just think knowing accidents throughout history, and why they happened, allows you to learn about it and how to prevent the misfortune that ended their lives. Everything is written in blood. May as well learn from theirs.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
At least the Swiss don't have to limp d* back to the gate due to the emotional trauma ... nah, give us an intersection departure and we good to go.
Severe, severe
here. I'm actually surprised an aircraft that heavy could just go back and try again.
Severe, severe
here. I'm actually surprised an aircraft that heavy could just go back and try again.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I’m curious if they re-ran the numbers for the intersection departure.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
At least the Swiss don't have to limp d* back to the gate due to the emotional trauma ... nah, give us an intersection departure and we good to go.
Severe, severe
If the ADS-B data is to be believed, they were only going 20 knots when they aborted.
Do you abort or reject at the blue juice factory
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Reject is the call.
If true, I've taxied faster than that.
My RTO in the MD-90 was over 140 knots and violent.
Miss you.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
At least the Swiss don't have to limp d* back to the gate due to the emotional trauma ... nah, give us an intersection departure and we good to go.
Severe, severe
They signed the release. THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO.
I say, force them to fly!
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
That is what I am called. How'd you know?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
The official RTO callout at our shop for the CA:
“Abort, I’ve got it!”
“Abort, I’ve got it!”
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Spicy. What happened?
It's been a while, but we got some sort of fault pertaining to elevator power (ACS fault? I can't remember) , I see Master Caution and then *BOOM* I'm smashed against my shoulder belts as the captain shouted "abort i have the aircraft". We really didn't have a lot of guidance on that and it was one of those (usual) nuisance faults on taxi-out.
We took the high speed, FDX got sent around for FOD on the runway and then it dawned on me that one of the tires disintegrated, threw chunks into the engine nacelle, foded an engine-out and here come the fire trucks.
