Delta hiring slowing?

[Roger Roger]

Isn't he more or less part of that younger blood though?

I’m not sure that someone who picked up trips instead of picketing gets credit for contractual gains.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I’m not sure that someone who picked up trips instead of picketing gets credit for contractual gains.

Noob making false claims. Be glad you won’t have to see having step trading fixing (forcing) work on days you wanted off because of vacation conflict.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The guy claiming that this generation doesn’t care about scope, who works for an airline that literally didn’t have scope until some younger blood came in is pretty rich

I was part of that younger blood. But it’s worth pointing out, we were non-union until 9 months prior to merger announcement date.




I still stand behind my comment about the new generation. When did you start in 121 again?

 

[FlyinSol0]

Well I’ve seen people try and justify the benefit of flows for the last decade+. It’s actually worked out for a very minuscule percentage over the years. Like I said, that wouldn’t even be a factor for me in choosing where to go. Those that think it is just don’t really know their history. If you want to be at AA it’s always been one of the slowest ways to get there.

Boy you really hate flows lol.

It worked for me, I don’t think I was part of a minuscule percentage. Maybe it doesn’t seem like it now, but it used to be hard to make it to a Legacy. There’s a few users here that can attest to that. It’s funny hearing that now 5 years is an eternity, but it’s a whole new world out there.

There’s always been the debate of what’s the best way to make it to a Legacy; TPIC, new type, masters degree, volunteering, flow. It doesn’t seem like that debate will end any time soon.

When did you start at your regional/when did you make it to your destination airline? Curious to compare that to a flow around the same time period.

 

[word302]

Boy you really hate flows lol.

It worked for me, I don’t think I was part of a minuscule percentage. Maybe it doesn’t seem like it now, but it used to be hard to make it to a Legacy. There’s a few users here that can attest to that. It’s funny hearing that now 5 years is an eternity, but it’s a whole new world out there.

There’s always been the debate of what’s the best way to make it to a Legacy; TPIC, new type, masters degree, volunteering, flow. It doesn’t seem like that debate will end any time soon.

When did you start at your regional/when did you make it to your destination airline? Curious to compare that to a flow around the same time period.

OO 2014
AS 2021

Thanks Covid. I just find it funny that pilots think flows are an advantage. It's a tactic used by management to attract and retain pilots at the regional. So you think AA would have problems filling classes if the flow didn't exist?

 

[FlyinSol0]

OO 2014
AS 2021

Thanks Covid. I just find it funny that pilots think flows are an advantage. It's a tactic used by management to attract and retain pilots at the regional. So you think AA would have problems filling classes if the flow didn't exist?

That’s prolly what the flow was for that time period for eagle folks, not sure tho.

Why can’t they be both beneficial for the pilots and the regional? I had my apps out for the whole time I was at Eagle, didn’t get a call. Granted, once I upgraded I was only applying to the Big 3. I know that was a similar story for my friend group here. I would qualify the flow as an advantage for us.

 

[Avalon781ML]

What if I leave AA and go back to PSA? Can I flow again?

No… you’d have to go to FedEx first so you could flow to PSA and then AA.

 

[Maurus]

Boy you really hate flows lol.

It worked for me, I don’t think I was part of a minuscule percentage. Maybe it doesn’t seem like it now, but it used to be hard to make it to a Legacy. There’s a few users here that can attest to that. It’s funny hearing that now 5 years is an eternity, but it’s a whole new world out there.

There’s always been the debate of what’s the best way to make it to a Legacy; TPIC, new type, masters degree, volunteering, flow. It doesn’t seem like that debate will end any time soon.

When did you start at your regional/when did you make it to your destination airline? Curious to compare that to a flow around the same time period.

Considering I was at PSA for 6 years and the flow time is 8 years I think that is evidence enough that flow is not efficient. Especially since we are seeing pilots getting hired from the regionals shortly after upgrading. The hiring environment has completely changed post covid.

5 years is not an eternity but the density of hiring over that stretch of time will equate to far more time being junior when it comes time to flow. Sure it was tough to get to a legacy before covid but hiring was also much much slower. Waiting an extra year or two now has a much higher career cost than waiting a couple years in the past.

This is of course assuming 5 years is an accurate flow time. PSA is still ~8 years according to my buddy that still works there. I still have yet to see the math for a 5 year flow at envoy. Pretty sure PSA has been advertising 6 years for a long time now.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

dacuj’s new single hit:







You can have your own flow through





at Envoy only dot com





“Other regional folks just don’t get it!”

 

[FlyinSol0]

Considering I was at PSA for 6 years and the flow time is 8 years I think that is evidence enough that flow is not efficient. Especially since we are seeing pilots getting hired from the regionals shortly after upgrading. The hiring environment has completely changed post covid.

5 years is not an eternity but the density of hiring over that stretch of time will equate to far more time being junior when it comes time to flow. Sure it was tough to get to a legacy before covid but hiring was also much much slower. Waiting an extra year or two now has a much higher career cost than waiting a couple years in the past.

This is of course assuming 5 years is an accurate flow time. PSA is still ~8 years according to my buddy that still works there. I still have yet to see the math for a 5 year flow at envoy. Pretty sure PSA has been advertising 6 years for a long time now.

I’m not telling people not to apply to a legacy outside of the flow. Congrats on getting hired off the street, that’s great! I bet had you not been called, you would’ve also been ecstatic to flow over.

Hiring is indeed wild now. Hopefully it doesn’t slow down, or get more competitive. This is all a pyramid scheme, and we all want as many people below us as possible.

Ask me in 30 years if it worked out, but right now I’m grateful I flowed.

For the record, not that past experiences indicate future results, PSA definitely had a 5 something year flow at one point.

 

[Hiboglossi]

Considering I was at PSA for 6 years and the flow time is 8 years I think that is evidence enough that flow is not efficient. Especially since we are seeing pilots getting hired from the regionals shortly after upgrading. The hiring environment has completely changed post covid.

5 years is not an eternity but the density of hiring over that stretch of time will equate to far more time being junior when it comes time to flow. Sure it was tough to get to a legacy before covid but hiring was also much much slower. Waiting an extra year or two now has a much higher career cost than waiting a couple years in the past.

This is of course assuming 5 years is an accurate flow time. PSA is still ~8 years according to my buddy that still works there. I still have yet to see the math for a 5 year flow at envoy. Pretty sure PSA has been advertising 6 years for a long time now.

Since you escaped outside of the flow clearly the flow doesn't preclude one from applying to other majors and hopefully getting hired at one. Seems like it could still potentially be a nice backup in case you can't get a call or get past an interview- as you point out, the majors have gotten less picky since the Pandemic ended, but that certainly hasn't been the norm historically and won't last.

 

[///AMG]

Is the flow slowdown not a fixture of the last 2-3 years/post COVID? I've known a handful of folks with either non-FW or non-current backgrounds who were at brand X in flow to brand Y, and without any exceptions, they applied to (and were hired by) a different mainline outside their flow because they couldn't take the BS stringing along from their CP about when the flow mainline interview would be scheduled. Which was part of a larger poaching process from every major to every other major's regionals. Seems to have worked out for pilots who realized it wasn't in their best interest to stick with the program. However, it seems like this has been a relatively short duration phenomenon. I'd imagine flow programs are more worthwhile when the hiring bar is higher at the majors, i.e. when we get back to more historical norms.

 

[Hiboglossi]

Is the flow slowdown not a fixture of the last 2-3 years/post COVID? I've known a handful of folks with either non-FW or non-current backgrounds who were at brand X in flow to brand Y, and without any exceptions, they applied to (and were hired by) a different mainline outside their flow because they couldn't take the BS stringing along from their CP about when the flow mainline interview would be scheduled. Which was part of a larger poaching process from every major to every other major's regionals. Seems to have worked out for pilots who realized it wasn't in their best interest to stick with the program. However, it seems like this has been a relatively short duration phenomenon. I'd imagine flow programs are more worthwhile when the hiring bar is higher at the majors, i.e. when we get back to more historical norms.

More or less. If you're at a regional with a flow it's pretty much never in your best interest to stick with the program if you can get hired at a major the normal way sooner than you would flow. But that "if" has been a lot more likely to happen in the last few years than usual.

 

[FlyinSol0]

Is the flow slowdown not a fixture of the last 2-3 years/post COVID? I've known a handful of folks with either non-FW or non-current backgrounds who were at brand X in flow to brand Y, and without any exceptions, they applied to (and were hired by) a different mainline outside their flow because they couldn't take the BS stringing along from their CP about when the flow mainline interview would be scheduled. Which was part of a larger poaching process from every major to every other major's regionals. Seems to have worked out for pilots who realized it wasn't in their best interest to stick with the program. However, it seems like this has been a relatively short duration phenomenon. I'd imagine flow programs are more worthwhile when the hiring bar is higher at the majors, i.e. when we get back to more historical norms.

Just as a clarification, there no interview or being stringed along by the CP. It’s just a ratio, varies by airline, but for every so many hires at AA, the wholly owned get x amount of pilots who flow over. You just get an email about when to show up for class.

 

[Ian_J]

I’m told this is from the Union at PSA - that doesn’t seem like a lot of flowing:


AA's Final Hiring Numbers for 2023
Total Hired: 2,161
Selection Process: 1,846
Flow: 315
Military Trained: 29%
Civilian Trained: 71%
Flows:
Envoy: 158 (~7% of new hires)
PSA: 97 (~4% of new hires)
PDT: 60 (~3% of new hires)

WO Regional selected outside of the flow: 52’

@Dacuj - are these stats accurate?

 

[word302]

I’m told this is from the Union at PSA - that doesn’t seem like a lot of flowing:


AA's Final Hiring Numbers for 2023
Total Hired: 2,161
Selection Process: 1,846
Flow: 315
Military Trained: 29%
Civilian Trained: 71%
Flows:
Envoy: 158 (~7% of new hires)
PSA: 97 (~4% of new hires)
PDT: 60 (~3% of new hires)

WO Regional selected outside of the flow: 52’

@Dacuj - are these stats accurate?

Exactly. “You must really hate flows”. Nope, I can just do elementary math.

 

[FlyinSol0]

Exactly. “You must really hate flows”. Nope, I can just do elementary math.

Well, maybe that’s why I had to flow, I couldn’t do elementary math. Luckily the company does the math for me, they say I’ll retire 100 something. That’s about average for my classmates who flowed over with me, after our 8 years at eagle. Worked for us, sorry it didn’t work for you. Looks like there’s about 300 people who couldn’t get hired off the street but still ended up at a legacy last year, wonder what they think of the flow.

 

[word302]

Well, maybe that’s why I had to flow, I couldn’t do elementary math. Luckily the company does the math for me, they say I’ll retire 100 something. That’s about average for my classmates who flowed over with me, after our 8 years at eagle. Worked for us, sorry it didn’t work for you. Looks like there’s about 300 people who couldn’t get hired off the street but still ended up at a legacy last year, wonder what they think of the flow.

Never had any desire to work for AA. Once you understand who created the flow and why you’ll maybe get my perspective. Either way I don’t really care. My whole point was that flow wouldn’t carry any weight for me when considering which regional to work for and if you want to work for AA, waiting for a flow is and always has been one of the slowest ways to get there.

 

[MikeD]

More or less. If you're at a regional with a flow it's pretty much never in your best interest to stick with the program if you can get hired at a major the normal way sooner than you would flow. But that "if" has been a lot more likely to happen in the last few years than usual.

A pilot at Envoy can be in the flow for AA, and still apply for AA with an outside application and potentially get selected, correct?

 

[Hiboglossi]

A pilot at Envoy can be in the flow for AA, and still apply for AA with an outside application and potentially get selected, correct?

Never worked at Envoy but my understanding is that the answer is yes, but it's very rare. Still, you can always apply to other majors.