Beechcraft lands $1.4B deal with Wheels Up

[🦈💜]

Yes, they're better built than GA Cessnas, but that's pretty freaking faint praise, and they land worse.

Them's fightin' words to all the lovely Bo's and Barons still flyin'!

Every King Air product is basically a Beech 18 with bigger engines and more buttons.

And this is bad because...? I happen to like Beech 18s!

~Fox

 

[Boris Badenov]

I happen to like Beech 18s!

~Fox

Me, too. It should have ended there.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

There must be a mistake or folks could be reading into it wrong.

Misprint, corporate discount, many aspects are in the detail. 1 news article about the idea means nothing. The business model/business plan has more detail.

Plenty profitable organizations exists today that avg Joe's thought would be hog-wash!

$1.4 Billion deal.... These folks don't grant billions, or spend billions without really SMART guys looking into it. Business Model has to be profitable. The demand & market research had to be done. Product value was obvious, connections were made, behind the scene deals were made. Needs were meet.

Again, people smarter than us JC'er have read, scaled, reviewed, edited, and scrutinized the details...

I think the many unemployed pilots of the fractional Ponzi scheme aftermath would disagree with you....

Well thinking about that one they may be smarter. Running pilots and airplanes ragged while collecting good money and walking away with a fistful of cash after the dust settles isn't ethical but it could be considered smart.

 

[hook_dupin]

The T-34C is still one of the most fun airplanes I've ever flown... and it was a Frankenstein contraption of the T-34A/B fuselage, Bonanza parts, and a metered-down PT-6 shoved in the front.

 

[pwttogfk]

The Duke is an awesome airplane!

(For the bottom line of a maintenance shop)

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

 

[bronco21016]

Mins?

 

[block30]

So when or if this company starts hiring, who is going to apply?

 

[bronco21016]

If pay, QOL, and future outlook are better than what I face at 9E (not hard to do) then I'll go.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Look I hate to burst anyones bubble but this is basically XOJET 8 years ago. We now face a debt crisis because our new airplanes were so expensive and we have to fly them over 100 hours a month to make a profit. So we just spin our wheels and slowly bleed to death. Sure we have some older airplanes that were added but they just piss the customers off. So we bleed to death some more. I was promised a 1 year upgrade and here it is 3 years later and I'm still on FO pay with all the hassles of PIC checks. Its a horrible roadblock in my career and all I want is to leave. The 15 guys who were laid off last month no one even remembers them. Some dude just contacted me on LinkedIn and was asking how to get hired. You could move to the NE sell all of your worldly goods and live on the final approach path to runway 24 at TEB all for empty promises and lies. In 2-5 years likely this company will go down like the Titanic and only managment will be laughing from the life rafts. This effort is destined to fail. No one can operate new aircraft in a fractional model.

Look at the following:

Flex Jet: currently pilots on the street, some recalls
Netjets: 500 pilots on the street a friend there is pretty miserable sounds like things are getting worse
Avantair: Hasta la vista
XOJET: just laid off 15 pilots, pay freeze since 2008. No chance of progression. Forever FO's making 52k FOR LIFE
JetSuite: Sounds like things are OK here for now still in the honeymoon phase however the debt is stacking up and as soon as the lenders want blood well the good times will end.

The best best is to finish up a management degree and come up with some nice B.S. management title to hold at this company. Get your hands in the cookie car and profit from sending the pilots to crap hotels with higher prices for a kickback. Even demand that the pilots can no longer change hotels on their own accord because it is hurting your kickback funds. Once the ship starts sinking get hired at a real flight department or just take the money and run.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Look I hate to burst anyones bubble but this is basically XOJET 8 years ago. We now face a debt crisis because our new airplanes were so expensive and we have to fly them over 100 hours a month to make a profit. So we just spin our wheels and slowly bleed to death. Sure we have some older airplanes that were added but they just piss the customers off. So we bleed to death some more. I was promised a 1 year upgrade and here it is 3 years later and I'm still on FO pay with all the hassles of PIC checks. Its a horrible roadblock in my career and all I want is to leave. The 15 guys who were laid off last month no one even remembers them. Some dude just contacted me on LinkedIn and was asking how to get hired. You could move to the NE sell all of your worldly goods and live on the final approach path to runway 24 at TEB all for empty promises and lies. In 2-5 years likely this company will go down like the Titanic and only managment will be laughing from the life rafts. This effort is destined to fail. No one can operate new aircraft in a fractional model.

Look at the following:

Flex Jet: currently pilots on the street, some recalls
Netjets: 500 pilots on the street a friend there is pretty miserable sounds like things are getting worse
Avantair: Hasta la vista
XOJET: just laid off 15 pilots, pay freeze since 2008. No chance of progression. Forever FO's making 52k FOR LIFE
JetSuite: Sounds like things are OK here for now still in the honeymoon phase however the debt is stacking up and as soon as the lenders want blood well the good times will end.

The best best is to finish up a management degree and come up with some nice B.S. management title to hold at this company. Get your hands in the cookie car and profit from sending the pilots to crap hotels with higher prices for a kickback. Even demand that the pilots can no longer change hotels on their own accord because it is hurting your kickback funds. Once the ship starts sinking get hired at a real flight department or just take the money and run.

Someone is a little bitter....

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Well thinking about that one they may be smarter. Running pilots and airplanes ragged while collecting good money and walking away with a fistful of cash after the dust settles isn't ethical but it could be considered smart.

Exactly! That's the gist of my point. In terms of business smarts, the slogan is "Profit Over Everything..." Just ask the departing CEO's of these Chpt.11bankrupt/merged airlines.

Also like...... minimum wage of $7.25/$7.50 at fast food restaurants today is not livable wage in AMERICA.


I've heard news report say that Wendy's can afford $15/hr wage for workers but they would have to cut into top corporate/front office earners salary. An alternative would be an increase of just $0.17 in burger costs for consumers eating at Wendy's. That's $0.17 increase in burger cost w/o touching corporate salary to ensure bottom workers earn $15/hr pay.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Exactly! That's the gist of my point. In terms of business smarts, the slogan is "Profit Over Everything..." Just ask the departing CEO's of these Chpt.11bankrupt/merged airlines.

Also like...... minimum wage of $7.25/$7.50 at fast food restaurants today is not livable wage in AMERICA.


I've heard news report say that Wendy's can afford $15/hr wage for workers but they would have to cut into top corporate/front office earners salary. An alternative would be an increase of just $0.17 in burger costs for consumers eating at Wendy's. That's $0.17 increase in burger cost w/o touching corporate salary to ensure bottom workers earn $15/hr pay.

Or you can go to school to learn a trade, and not work at McBurgers for the rest of your life.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Or you can go to school to learn a trade, and not work at McBurgers for the rest of your life.

Or realize college is not for everyone... Instead of struggling and adding college loans to your debt, and paying more of your $15-20/hr income towards 4 years+ of debt accumulated.

I can not begin to tell you how many college graduates in America today are earning $15/hr, or LESS. I personally know dozens (multiples of 12), especially in aviation... Truth, she hurts.

Take off her make-up and mascara, and you'll quickly see reality is not a pretty woman.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Also like...... minimum wage of $7.25/$7.50 at fast food restaurants today is not livable wage in AMERICA.

Here we go again. ZapBrannigan's favorite catch phrase. What is a living wage exactly? How did you determine $15/hr. is a livable wage?

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Or realize college is not for everyone... Instead of struggling and adding college loans to your debt, and paying more of your $15-20/hr income towards 4 years+ of debt accumulated.

I can not begin to tell you how many college graduates in America today are earning $15/hr, or LESS. I personally know dozens (multiples of 12), especially in aviation... Truth, she hurts.

Take off her make-up and mascara, and you'll quickly see reality is not a pretty woman.

I never said college....go to your local tech school and learn diesel maintenance, take some basic computer courses, go to truck driving school, become an apprentice plumber, learn carpentry. For a minor outlay of cash, you can greatly improve your skill set, and get yourself ahead in life. The problem is that you'll have to work hard and bust your ass, which far too many youths these days aren't willing to do, cause it takes away their Xbox time. Hell I've even seen it in the pilot world.

Mike Rowe is a great proponent of people learning trade skills and not shying away from hard work. The guy that learned how to empty septic tanks, and then started his own business doing the same, probably brings home six figures. But kids don't want to do that, they want to be a lawyer cause they see them on tv, or be a basketball star, which is statistically impossible.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

[ScorpionStinger]

So back to the Beeches $1.4 deal!

I am really glad they've received this deal to make more planes!

This is great news for the industry. This is great news for American Manufacturing. This is great news because this $1.4 billion deal helps keep an American company afloat. It help's keep our National GDP afloat. This helps keep jobs afloat. This helps Mr. JT Thompson & Ms. Jessica Thompson buy Similac for their baby, and put groceries on the table. This helps workers pay/contribute to the federal & state tax system (revenue). This helps fund grandpa Thompson's remaining SS income & medicare. This helps Mr. James Blairwood who wants to be a pilot for this company., etc., etc., etc...

I'm that guy who can see the big picture. I see many positives in this deal. Many positive trickle down effects vs, negative. Folks can knock the idea, and think negative about the company all they want. But try and see a bigger picture.

I say CONGRATS to Beechcraft and it's employees! They needed this, Both short term & long term.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

So back to the Beeches $1.4 deal!

I am really glad they've received this deal to make more planes!

This is great news for the industry. This is great news for American Manufacturing. This is great news because this $1.4 billion deal helps keep an American company afloat. It help's keep our National GDP afloat. This helps keep jobs afloat. This helps Mr. JT Thompson & Ms. Jessica Thompson buy Similac for their baby, and put groceries on the table. This helps workers pay/contribute to the federal & state tax system (revenue). This helps fund grandpa Thompson's remaining SS income & medicare. This helps Mr. James Blairwood who wants to be a pilot for this company., etc., etc., etc...

I'm that guy who can see the big picture. I see many positives in this deal. Many positive trickle down effects vs, negative. Folks can knock the idea, and think negative about the company all they want. But try and see a bigger picture.

I say CONGRATS to Beechcraft and it's employees! They needed this, Both short term & long term.

Where do all the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows go when this company has trouble paying back 1.4 billion dollars?

 

[A Life Aloft]

Just for a dose of reality and the really big picture, a "deal" is one thing.......placing actual orders, taking delivery of the aircraft and paying for those orders is quite another and this "deal" is over a several year time frame. It will be interesting to see just how many aircraft are bought/paid for/delivered and when, and how well this venture does/in what time frame/and for how long.

Let's hope they fair better than Avantair:
Avantair's Prospects Dim As Owners Head For Exits

http://www.forbes.com/sites/busines...tairs-prospects-dim-as-owners-head-for-exits/

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Where do all the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows go when this company has trouble paying back 1.4 billion dollars?

Same place AMR, UAL, Continental, American West, USAir, DAL, TWA, McDonald Douglas, PAN AM, Chance Vought, De Havilland; and same place as many other non-airlines/non-aircraft manufactures corp when they went bankrupt... Idk I can't see the future.

APPLE Inc. and many other were doomed for failure. Sometimes things change, things turn around. Other times they die-out, or merged, or failing divisions cutt-off.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Just for a dose of reality and the really big picture, a "deal" is one thing.......placing actual orders, taking delivery of the aircraft and paying for those orders is quite another and this "deal" is over a several year time frame. It will be interesting to see just how many aircraft are bought/paid for/delivered and when, and how well this venture does/in what time frame/and for how long.

Let's hope they fair better than Avantair:
Avantair's Prospects Dim As Owners Head For Exits

http://www.forbes.com/sites/busines...tairs-prospects-dim-as-owners-head-for-exits/

We can agree Avantair has maintenance issue or design issue they can't afford to fix.... Paiggio Aircraft Corp issues... FAA compliance issues.... etc., nature of the beast... Part of doing business, hedge for issues or die!

Isn't almost half of this $1.4 billion deal being spent also on Beechcraft providing ($600 million worth) comprehensive maintenance for this "Wheels Up" corporation/venture? Unlike Avantair?

Well, sounds like a $600 million hedge on maintenance to me, unlike Avantair...