For those that have or currently own a plane, single engine. What was the biggest surprise that you were not expecting the first year of ownership? Or anytime?
1.) First annual, $10k. I had a really good shop (I've continued to used them since 2005), but different shops have different pet peeves. That and I had items fixed that were not required for airworthiness but, I wanted them repaired. I had no idea how much aircraft parts cost before that annual.
Beyond annual
2.) How much is spent on fuel (io520). You are filling pages on you credit card bill faster than your log book.
3.) What dorks your friend are:
~~ My friend suggested we take the plane to lunch. I'm going to spend north of $300 RT on fuel. When the lunch bill came he itemized how much I owed for lunch. Pissed me off so bad I bought fuel before heading for home. "You get this one, I'll fill it up when we get back." Funny, he never asked to go again.
~~ Another friend wanted to fly out for breakfast. "Okay, meet me at the airport at 8:00am on Saturday." Got up early so I could fuel up before he got there. 8:45 rolls around, no friend in sight, I called him; "Oh, I decided to sleep in today."
~~ A simi-experienced pilot friend was riding with me when the Cessna ahead didn't clear the runway (It's always a Cessna) and tower sent me around. I always leave the gear down on a go-around (SE aircraft). On downwind I looked and the gear was up. Who put the gear up? "Oh, I thought I'd help out."
~~St John's AZ in September, every tank is full plus luggage for 2, 3 nights. Field elevation 6,000', it's 100 degrees, DA is off the chart. And who the F put that house on the end of the runway. I lower some flaps and lean the engine a little for takeoff. My pax has been a PPL for over 10 years. As I take the runway I scan the panel. Why are my flaps up? "Oh, when we hit flying speed I'll lower the flaps and we'll JUMP into the air. You'll see." He almost had to take Greyhound home.
Doesn't take long before you start making a list of who NEVER gets in your airplane again.
View attachment 67546
In 2018 I waited 6 weeks for a factory rebuilt Continental io520. Didn't have one on the shelf, had to build it.I've heard some horror stories recently on annuals and engine swaps. Our club does its own MX, and the average annual seems to be a six-week deal these days - mostly because of difficulty getting parts. I've heard of engine overhauls taking a year or more.
1.) First annual, $10k. I had a really good shop (I've continued to used them since 2005), but different shops have different pet peeves. That and I had items fixed that were not required for airworthiness but, I wanted them repaired. I had no idea how much aircraft parts cost before that annual.
Beyond annual
2.) How much is spent on fuel (io520). You are filling pages on you credit card bill faster than your log book.
3.) What dorks your friend are:
~~ My friend suggested we take the plane to lunch. I'm going to spend north of $300 RT on fuel. When the lunch bill came he itemized how much I owed for lunch. Pissed me off so bad I bought fuel before heading for home. "You get this one, I'll fill it up when we get back." Funny, he never asked to go again.
~~ Another friend wanted to fly out for breakfast. "Okay, meet me at the airport at 8:00am on Saturday." Got up early so I could fuel up before he got there. 8:45 rolls around, no friend in sight, I called him; "Oh, I decided to sleep in today."
~~ A simi-experienced pilot friend was riding with me when the Cessna ahead didn't clear the runway (It's always a Cessna) and tower sent me around. I always leave the gear down on a go-around (SE aircraft). On downwind I looked and the gear was up. Who put the gear up? "Oh, I thought I'd help out."
~~St John's AZ in September, every tank is full plus luggage for 2, 3 nights. Field elevation 6,000', it's 100 degrees, DA is off the chart. And who the F put that house on the end of the runway. I lower some flaps and lean the engine a little for takeoff. My pax has been a PPL for over 10 years. As I take the runway I scan the panel. Why are my flaps up? "Oh, when we hit flying speed I'll lower the flaps and we'll JUMP into the air. You'll see." He almost had to take Greyhound home.
Doesn't take long before you start making a list of who NEVER gets in your airplane again.
View attachment 67546
new cylinders, 22K 8 to 10 weeks.You don't happen to have an O-320-E2A sitting around do you? Which brings me to my next question. How far over TBO have you taken your
O-320's? I just bought a 75 PA28-140 for 35K. Nice in and out and a WAAS 430. Engine is at 2200. I know the previous owner took pretty good care of it and they have been doing oil changes every 50 hours, checking the filter, and the oil analysis comes back OK. The IA who has done the last 5 annuals say keep on running it until you see an issue. It has flown regularly about 15 hours/mo. I was going to pull the engine ASAP but after hearing how hard it is to get an overhaul decided to let it ride. Day VFR only over flat land in eastern WA. I'd ask you about the wing spar AD but I think you're a 172 guy.
Hi Don! Hope retirement is treating you well. I do have 1 piper in the fleet. I just installed an O-320-E3D with a upgraded 160HP RAM STC in it.
With reference to your question, I typically would buy planes near or above TBO. The reason for this is I get the plane at the lowest cost, but just as importantly, I get to install the engine myself and know the exact history of it. I know that the critical break in procedure was followed to the T.
There were two airplanes (O-320-E2D's) I bought that I did not do this procedure too. The first one only made it to 1800 hours and began fretting down the middle without notice. I caught it while doing a random 50 hour service to it. I immediately pulled it offline and sent it out for overhaul. Because I've given my engine guy 6 engines to overhaul in 16 months, he got that engine back to me in 3 weeks as a favor.
The second 320-E2D I bought with 600 hours on it had to have a top overhaul at 1300 hours. Its starting to show signs that it won't make it to TBO.
I have 2 birds with D2J's motors in them that I installed last year. One now has 1900 hours on it. and the other just passed 1500. Both engines haven't given me any problems. The common theme I am seeing with my birds is when I do the install and break in, they make it to TBO with signs of healthy life left to give. My plan is to take them both past TBO to 2500 hours them swap them out. Because I'm doing this, I'm going to be doing compression checks every 50 hours instead of every 100. I'll have to keep a much closer eye on them. They both typically burn 1 quart for every hour in the air. If oil burn starts to go up, that could be an indication the end is near.
Having said all that, my side gig has become buying them beat up and used, refurbishing them, and selling them. In doing so, I have seen some scary stuff out there. There was a flight school in NJ that was running a O-360-L2A with 3800 SMOH. He had the plane listed for sale for a good price which caught my attention but when I heard the time on the motor, I wasn't willing to risk my CFI's flying it back across the country with the amount of liability involved with that. The guy told me "These engines are tanks, they will easily go 4000-5000 hours". These guys are sticking unsuspecting CFI's and students in them.
I do all of the above because I'm sticking instructors and students in the planes. If it was my own bird, my appetite for risk would be different. THe likely hood of the thing quitting is low if all the facts line up. In your case, the facts line up where taking it past tbo is worth it IMHO. As long as theres no metal coming out of it, you do oil changes every 50, check compressions every 50, you're not flying it over hostile terrain, and its not serving in a commercial capacity, I would keep the engine running if it were me.
If the plane was in socal, I'd even offer to help you with the overhaul in my hangar. If you're interested, it may be worth giving my guy a call to see what wait times are looking like for an overhaul with him. What I've been doing lately is buying used cores for $5-10K and having him build out the engines so that when my comes time due, I just swap it right out and its flying 3 days later.
Last year I paid $16,700 for a E2D, but thats not including the magnetos. starter, alternator, oil cooler overhaul, or any accessories. I have a wholesale account with aircraftspruce,vendors so I get anywhere from 5-10% off parts and free shipping and I install those myself. The O-320-E2D I just installed a few months ago I had to cough up $18,500 with the same scenario. Prices went up its no secret. But, the good news is they have stopped going up and parts are now becoming available again.
I sold my airplane last year because someone waved a bunch of money at me. I miss it, but I don't miss the hassle that was ever increasing. That said, I watch friends with boats and horses go through the same kind of things, and they cost more money, if you can believe it.
Honestly, I think GA is in a bad place, and I don't mean that to just ring that tired bell.
I've been involved in GA since 1987, and have seen it wax and wane. Back then everyone thought the problems would just go away, and it'd be 1976 all over again. Everyone thought the next crisis would kill it, mode C requirements, ADS-B, 100LL etc etc.
Those minor problems aside, there's a bad confluence of problems coming down the hill.