Part 135 destination with no IAP

[jrh]

Here's the scenario:

Part 135 turbojet operation.
Client wants to go to a destination several hundred miles away with no instrument approaches.

Operator has OpSpecs:

B050 which includes a limitation of "Turbojet VFR operations may be conducted only between airports within 100 nm of each other, at altitudes of less than 10,000 MSL and, except for takeoff and landing, not less than 3000 ft AGL."

C064 which says, in part, the operator is authorized to conduct flights in Class G airspace and to airports without an operating control tower, provided "The airport is served by an authorized instrument approach procedure."

C077 which essentially says flightcrew may operate VFR in the terminal area to uncontrolled airports, provided they can see the landing surface, etc.

Question now, can this trip be done legally? If so, how?

 

[tiredcfi]

Is weather reporting available at the airport?

 

[Inverted25]

I would say yes. C064 wouldn’t apply because that is for operating IFR in glass G airspace. CO77 has a provision in there for canceling IFR for a VFR arrival. If the airport doesn’t have weather reporting they would need A057 Eligible on Demand. I could be wrong but that’s my quick take on it


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[Inverted25]

Just double checked this and you can do it under CO77. My company actually goes to a couple airports with no published approaches. Look at C077 c. Terminal arrival VFR and section f. Special limitations and provisions for visual flight rules


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[jrh]

Is weather reporting available at the airport?

No, but that shouldn't matter. Operator has A057 and let's say the weather is CAVU for 1000 miles in every direction.

 

[jrh]

Just double checked this and you can do it under CO77. My company actually goes to a couple airports with no published approaches. Look at C077 c. Terminal arrival VFR and section f. Special limitations and provisions for visual flight rules

This is why it seems like a gray area. Canceling IFR is certainly allowed under various circumstances.

What do you make of the requirement to have an IAP under C064? What circumstances would require the airport to have an IAP versus not? The way I read C064, it sounds like C064 applies to every untowered airport.

 

[Inverted25]

This is why it seems like a gray area. Canceling IFR is certainly allowed under various circumstances.

What do you make of the requirement to have an IAP under C064? What circumstances would require the airport to have an IAP versus not? The way I read C064, it sounds like C064 applies to every untowered airport.

C064 would only apply if you were to stay IFR into the class G airspace. You would use C077 to cancel your IFR before entering Class G airspace making C064 non applicable.


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[jrh]

C064 would only apply if you were to stay IFR into the class G airspace. You would use C077 to cancel your IFR before entering Class G airspace making C064 non applicable.

I think you're right. As I re-read each OpSpec, this makes sense.

Seems kinda weird to be required to cancel rather than do a visual approach and keep the clearance down to the ground, but I think that's what the letter of the law says to do.

 

[Inverted25]

I think you're right. As I re-read each OpSpec, this makes sense.

Seems kinda weird to be required to cancel rather than do a visual approach and keep the clearance down to the ground, but I think that's what the letter of the law says to do.

Yea there’s a few of those OpSpecs where it’s like I get the intent but your making it harder than it needs to be.


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[Roger Roger]

Still gonna send it.

 

[DesertNomad]

Land first at an airport within 100nm of the real destination that has an IAP and then depart for the one that does not?

That would satisfy B050.

 

[CFIT99]

I would say yes. C064 wouldn’t apply because that is for operating IFR in glass G airspace. CO77 has a provision in there for canceling IFR for a VFR arrival. If the airport doesn’t have weather reporting they would need A057 Eligible on Demand. I could be wrong but that’s my quick take on it


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bingo! Coral Reef comes to mind...

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Here's the scenario:

Part 135 turbojet operation.
Client wants to go to a destination several hundred miles away with no instrument approaches.

Operator has OpSpecs:

B050 which includes a limitation of "Turbojet VFR operations may be conducted only between airports within 100 nm of each other, at altitudes of less than 10,000 MSL and, except for takeoff and landing, not less than 3000 ft AGL."

C064 which says, in part, the operator is authorized to conduct flights in Class G airspace and to airports without an operating control tower, provided "The airport is served by an authorized instrument approach procedure."

C077 which essentially says flightcrew may operate VFR in the terminal area to uncontrolled airports, provided they can see the landing surface, etc.

Question now, can this trip be done legally? If so, how?

I hope I'm not missing part of your question and giving you an oversimplified answer, but generally, this is pretty easy...

If your OpSpecs allow you to cancel before landing, just file to some legal airport nearby, using your desired airport as a fix on your route. When you get within striking distance, ask ATC to descend you to minimum vectoring altitude. If you get your desired airport in sight, cancel and land. If you don't, continue to your filed airport.

 

[Roger Roger]

I hope I'm not missing part of your question and giving you an oversimplified answer, but generally, this is pretty easy...

If your OpSpecs allow you to cancel before landing, just file to some legal airport nearby, using your desired airport as a fix on your route. When you get within striking distance, ask ATC to descend you to minimum vectoring altitude. If you get your desired airport in sight, cancel and land. If you don't, continue to your filed airport.

Isn’t there something in 135 about not filing to an airport you don’t intend to land at?

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Isn’t there something in 135 about not filing to an airport you don’t intend to land at?

Nope... And if you find something, don't tell me.

 

[Roger Roger]

Nope... And if you find one, don't tell me.

Yeah, I just did a quick flip through 135 and didn’t find it...I guess I’m misremembering.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Yeah, I just did a quick flip through 135 and didn’t find it...I guess I’m misremembering.

You're doing fine. Lately, I've been having a devil of a time trying to separate the mis-information I remember correctly from the correct information I mis-remember.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

You're doing fine. Lately, I've been having a devil of a time trying to separate the mis-information I remember correctly from the correct information I mis-remember.

Story of my life