New GI Bill and Flight Training

F

FightingFalconInstructor

New Member
The new GI Bill DOES NOT cover flight training! Period. Dot. Once you convert to the New GI Bill, IT IS A ONE WAY DOOR, you cannot go back. If you have any questions about what chapter GI Bill you fall under, please PM me with your source of Commissioning, duty status (AD, Guard, Reserve etc) and deployment history.

Carl
 
Period. Dot.??????

Not necessarily true, Sir.

In an effort to give everyone the best information I am forced to inform you that the Post 9/11 GI Bill does cover flight training. It will actually cover 100% of training as opposed to the 60% that the Ch 30 MGIB covers. In addition it should cover some of the books.

The catch is that the program has to be a degree program from an institute of higher learning (IHL) i.e. Embry Riddle, UND, COCC, etc.

This is spelled out on the VA website.

"Approved training under the Post-9/11 GI Bill includes graduate and undergraduate degrees, and vocational/technical training. All training programs must be offered by an institution of higher learning (IHL) and approved for GI Bill benefits."

and on the state by state tuition and fees break down this is the entire reason that the max fees in Utah are as high as $63,576.50 per term! It specifies how they calculated these numbers at the top of the table.

"All undergraduate program costs were taken into consideration to determine the highest in-state maximum tuition per credit hour and the maximum fees per term. These figures may include program tuition for high cost programs such as flight courses taken as part of a degree requirement or undergraduate pharmacy, nursing, and engineering charges."

I have confirmed this multiple times and I have applied for benefits. There are a few articles about it available. One is from insidehighered.com. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/09/gi

This is great for the veteran and not so great for a flight school not associated with a university and degree program.

Side note: What's even crazier is that for the active duty member the state by state max tuition rates do not apply. There is no max tuition or fees. Yes you read that right. Once you have chosen a college/flight school you can choose to fly the nicest a/c in the school's fleet. READ: More glass or more multi time.

I know this sounds too good to be true but call the GI Bill hotline and they will spell it out. Ask specific questions because surprising as it may be but not every VA operator is of the same caliber. Have them look up the reg or talk to a supervisor. Multiple times I have called and had to educate the operator on the benefit before I can ask my question. 1-888-442-4551 prompt 1, 1 and then 0 to get to the operator faster.

To my fellow veterans with benefits: Even the FAQ on the VA site gets it wrong. They have a lot of things to work out but don't be discouraged just call and ask them and be persistent.

Carl, If you investigate this for yourself and find my points valid then I would politely request that you update your website with more informative facts about the post 9/11 GI BILL. All eligible veterans out there deserve to have all the information given to them and when the antiquated VA does such a poor job at spelling out the actual bill that was signed into law, I believe it is up to fellow veterans to take care of our own and share information.

VR

Stephen
 
Graviator said:
Period. Dot.??????

Not necessarily true, Sir.

In an effort to give everyone the best information I am forced to inform you that the Post 9/11 GI Bill does cover flight training. It will actually cover 100% of training as opposed to the 60% that the Ch 30 MGIB covers. In addition it should cover some of the books.

The catch is that the program has to be a degree program from an institute of higher learning (IHL) i.e. Embry Riddle, UND, COCC, etc.
Click to expand...

Is it only post-PPL flight training that is covered, just like the Ch30 did? Or does the post 9/11 bill cover all flight training now?
 
It covers from zero hours. No PPL required. Another bonus is that it pays directly to the college/Flt school at the beginning of the semester. No more financing worries, ....technically.
 
Graviator said:
The catch is that the program has to be a degree program from an institute of higher learning (IHL) i.e. Embry Riddle, UND, COCC, etc.
Click to expand...


Ya but who needs a higher education when you can make over 100K without a degree?

FightingFalconInstructor said:
Did you know you can be an airline pilot making over $100,000 without a college degree?

Its true; the Regional Airlines have dropped their college degree requirement. Use your GI Bill to pay for Flight Training rather than a college degree. http://www.accessibleaviation.com/vabenefit.htm
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Thanks for clarifying Stephen. I thought something sounded kinda fishy!
 
Graviator said:
The catch is that the program has to be a degree program from an institute of higher learning (IHL) i.e. Embry Riddle, UND, COCC, etc.
Click to expand...

I called the VA and they seem more confused than I am.

Does this include programs like Mesa Pilot Development affiliated with ASU or San Juan college? Does it have to be the university's own planes?

If I knew this when I switched over this semester, I would have chosen a completely different school. I seem to have been wasting my time and benefits studying a non-aviation related field.
 
Just took a quick look at those two programs and it looks like it doesn't qualify. Find the "VA-trained" (I use that term loosely) financial aid officer in the college that you are interested in and ask them. The key is that the school has to include the flight cost into the degree program as a fee for the course.

The money trail goes like this roughly: Flight school bills the college, College tells the VA the price, Va pays the college, The college pays the flight school.

Only certain schools have arranged it that way. At the schools you mentioned it looks like the college bills you for classes and the flight school bills you for lessons. Not good.

Then there are cases like ERAU and UND which are IHL and flight school all in one entity.

My tactic to find a school was to go to the "Max Tuition and Fees 2010" page on the VA Website and look at the states with the highest fees per term. Florida, Utah, Colorado, etc. (look for over $20K in fees) and then google for colleges in that state for aviation departments. Not the best way but it works. First try the aviation department or the financial aid office.

I also looked up the schools mentioned in the inside higher ed article. More programs have shown up since that was written though.

Lastly, i would call the VA back up and roll the dice to get someone more knowledgeable. Good Luck.
 
I spoke with the veterans service office at Utah Valley this morning. They say that they cannot add the flight training in as fees and the 60/40 program still applies with the post 9/11 GI Bill. Now I wonder if that means that you can collect benefits for both tuition and housing allowance while concurrently flight training under 60/40. If anyone finds a school that can add the flight training in as fees, let me know.
 
Why would you use the old 60/40 when the new one will pay 100 percent?? There is some utah school that reported the flight costs with the fees when the VA asked for max tuition and fees. You just have to find it. How many aviation colleges can there be in Utah? Check out the community colleges.
 
We need to compile a list of all the schools in the country that provide flight training via the post 9/11 GI Bill. That would be huge on "paying it forward."
 
I got more information after speaking with the schools and a surprisingly knowledgable VA rep. this morning.

If you previously used your Chapter 30 benefits, you retain the 60/40 program option. The VA rep said "While you are Chapter 33 (Post 9/11) on paper, you still collect under the 60/40 flight training program like chapter 30". Basically you retain your chapter 30 benefits even after you switch over as long as you have used some chapter 30 benefits in some capacity before (college or flight school). This gives us a lot of flexibility to choose our schools and doesn't limit us to college flight programs but, you can still choose a college flight program if you want.

I feel bad for the new servicemembers just entering the military won't get the flexibility to choose between a regular part 141 flight school and a college flight program.

That being said, Embry Riddle is one of those IHL's that is completely free now. Makes me wish I still had 36 months of benees left:

http://www.erau.edu/pr/flyfree.html
 
Hey just to let you guys know I talked to the VA rep at Middle Tennessee State University and they also let you use the new gi bill to pay for 100% of the flight training. They charge for the flight lab through fees, however he did say that sometimes theres a wait to get into some of the flight labs. Maybe because a lot of people are starting to figure it out which is a good thing.
 
subpilot said:
Not if the government pays 100% of the tab it is not.
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Exactly! No matter how bad you may think college flight programs are it can't be that bad if it's free. Sure beats going to ATP and having to pay 40% of the cost of training on the old GI Bill.
 
FightingFalconInstructor said:
The new GI Bill DOES NOT cover flight training! Period. Dot. Once you convert to the New GI Bill, IT IS A ONE WAY DOOR, you cannot go back. If you have any questions about what chapter GI Bill you fall under, please PM me with your source of Commissioning, duty status (AD, Guard, Reserve etc) and deployment history.

Carl
Click to expand...

Another great thread here! Should be stickied. I chose to stick with my regular Montgomery GI Bill because of The Flight Training reason. I don't think the new GI Bill is worth it unless you plan on attending classes 3/4 of the time. Plus, when you run out of your Chapter 30 benefits, you can continue on with The New Bill. Can't do that the other way around. Nope. I opt to have both. :D
 
pfitmx15 said:
Hey just to let you guys know I talked to the VA rep at Middle Tennessee State University and they also let you use the new gi bill to pay for 100% of the flight training. They charge for the flight lab through fees, however he did say that sometimes theres a wait to get into some of the flight labs. Maybe because a lot of people are starting to figure it out which is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Well, good... I hope more people will continue to figure this out because I think it's a bunch of BS. :rolleyes: I'mma call The VA Hotline today and check on updates. :)
 
subpilot said:
We need to compile a list of all the schools in the country that provide flight training via the post 9/11 GI Bill. That would be huge on "paying it forward."
Click to expand...

1.) Middle Tennessee State University
2.) Embry Riddle
3.) Cochise College (Tucson, AZ)
3.) University of North Dakota
4.) Chandler Gilbert Community College/UND Partnership
 
Once you use all of your Ch 30 you can apply for 12 months of ch 33 Benifets but you will not get the full 36 months of Ch 33. Once you factor in books, examiner fees, housing - the 60/40 is more like 50/ 50 if you use Ch 30.
 
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