Lawsuit filed against B6/NK

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If ya'll really think this merger will go through and this is nothing but grandstanding by Biden's Admin, you'd buy all the SAVE stock you could afford. 16.92 right now and jetBlue is all cash out at 31/share.


Right? RIGHT?

 

[BobDDuck]

It's not grandstanding. It's putting pressure on them to divest Florida assets.

 

[Hiboglossi]

If ya'll really think this merger will go through and this is nothing but grandstanding by Biden's Admin, you'd buy all the SAVE stock you could afford. 16.92 right now and jetBlue is all cash out at 31/share.


Right? RIGHT?

I don't know if it's grandstanding or not. But I'm exposed to enough of the airline industry's cyclicality by working in it, so if I'm going to buy stocks they won't be airline stocks.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It's not grandstanding. It's putting pressure on them to divest Florida assets.

Meh. De-regulation was supposed to be de-regulation. Either re-regulate entirely and guarantee profits like pre-1978, or GTHO and let the airline run their business.

I don't know if it's grandstanding or not. But I'm exposed to enough of the airline industry's cyclicality by working in it, so if I'm going to buy stocks they won't be airline stocks.

I agree with you in principle, but in this case it isn't a long term investment. It's looking to be cashed out Q1 2024 (or 2025) at $31/share.

 

[BobDDuck]

Meh. De-regulation was supposed to be de-regulation. Either re-regulate entirely and guarantee profits like pre-1978, or GTHO and let the airline run their business.

They are letting the airlines run their business. They aren't blocking the merger. They are blocking the anti competitiveness that would be generated in certain markets.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

It's not grandstanding. It's putting pressure on them to divest Florida assets.

It is grandstanding. But even if it wasn’t, it’s still wrong. There is no shortage of competition in the airline industry.

 

[BobDDuck]

It is grandstanding. But even if it wasn’t, it’s still wrong. There is no shortage of competition in the airline industry.

Not in MCO/FLL there isn't.

 

[Hiboglossi]

Since the Delta/ Northwest, Continental/ United, American/ U.S. Airways and AirTran/ Southwest mergers were allowed it's hard to see why this one shouldn't be. With the exception of AirTran, all of those pre-merger airlines were bigger than either JetBlue or Spirit are now.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The DOJ did successfully stop the United/US Airways merger in 2000 early 2001.

There was significant overlap between United's IAD operation, and USAir's DCA and Baltimore operation including Metrojet. Stephen Wolf knew that the DOJ was going to have a problem with the DC metroplex being dominated by the new United.

So he hatched a plan that he thought the DOJ would never dare sue to stop.

USAir was going to create a fourth wholly owned subsidiary called MidAtlantic Airlines, which would fly the Embraer 190. When the merger was consummated, MidAtlantic would be spun off into a separate and independent airline called DC Air.

DC Air would fly the lions share of domestic traffic out of DC, and more importantly it was going to be run by Robert Johnson, who was the CEO of Black Entertainment Television. DC Air would have become the first minority run airline while simultaneously preempting any DOJ concerns about the overlap in DC.

They sued anyway and the merger crumbled under its own weight just months before 9/11.

Neat idea though.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Not in MCO/FLL there isn't.

Until a few months ago, I was regularly traveling out of MCO. The competition is plenty there.

 

[Avalon781ML]

Not in MCO/FLL there isn't.

Is that because the consumer has largely decided who best serves their interests with lower fares and decent service? The government deregulated aviation… so leave it deregulated… they shouldn’t meddle in a mess that they, in essence, created.

 

[Baronman]

Until a few months ago, I was regularly traveling out of MCO. The competition is plenty there.

Exactly. I’ve taxied all over the field there. There’s terminals full of Delter jets, Luv jets, AA jets…you name it.

FLL is really the only one I can think of where you see a disproportionate number of Blue and Yellow.

 

[CFIscare]

The DOJ did successfully stop the United/US Airways merger in 2000 early 2001.

There was significant overlap between United's IAD operation, and USAir's DCA and Baltimore operation including Metrojet. Stephen Wolf knew that the DOJ was going to have a problem with the DC metroplex being dominated by the new United.

So he hatched a plan that he thought the DOJ would never dare sue to stop.

USAir was going to create a fourth wholly owned subsidiary called MidAtlantic Airlines, which would fly the Embraer 190. When the merger was consummated, MidAtlantic would be spun off into a separate and independent airline called DC Air.

DC Air would fly the lions share of domestic traffic out of DC, and more importantly it was going to be run by Robert Johnson, who was the CEO of Black Entertainment Television. DC Air would have become the first minority run airline while simultaneously preempting any DOJ concerns about the overlap in DC.

They sued anyway and the merger crumbled under its own weight just months before 9/11.

Neat idea though.

Just to add, the certificate that was going to be used for DC Air was Potomac Air, which was created using Dash-8s flying out of DCA. After the merger was called off, it was shutdown after 9/11. It would later be dusted off and planned to be used for MidAtlantic, first with CRJ’s to get the certificate going and later planned for use with the newly ordered Embraer 170. Eventually it was decided MidAtlantic would just use the Airways certificate and it became an airline within an airline. One that would use express pay rates, express livery, but used the USAir call sign, mainline payroll etc.

If the UA/US merger would have gone through, the plan was to use the Potomac certificate to create DC Air as you mentioned. Initially using 737s from the merger, but eventually AA was negotiated into the plan. They would own 49% of DC Air and would provide wet leased F-100s.
Interesting times.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-dc-air/7164d1d5-00c4-42a3-8684-66ec1509b96d/

DC Air Seals Ownership Deal with American Airlines

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Just to add, the certificate that was going to be used for DC Air was Potomac Air, which was created using Dash-8s flying out of DCA. After the merger was called off, it was shutdown after 9/11. It would later be dusted off and planned to be used for MidAtlantic, first with CRJ’s to get the certificate going and later planned for use with the newly ordered Embraer 170. Eventually it was decided MidAtlantic would just use the Airways certificate and it became an airline within an airline. One that would use express pay rates, express livery, but used the USAir call sign, mainline payroll etc.

If the UA/US merger would have gone through, the plan was to use the Potomac certificate to create DC Air as you mentioned. Initially using 737s from the merger, but eventually AA was negotiated into the plan. They would own 49% of DC Air and would provide wet leased F-100s.
Interesting times.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-dc-air/7164d1d5-00c4-42a3-8684-66ec1509b96d/

DC Air Seals Ownership Deal with American Airlines

Yesss! Forgot a lot of those details. Wasn't Potomac going to be based in Roanoke using the Dash to begin with?

I mean you have to give it to Wolf, he thought of everything to get the DOJ to buy off on it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Exactly. I’ve taxied all over the field there. There’s terminals full of Delter jets, Luv jets, AA jets…you name it.

FLL is really the only one I can think of where you see a disproportionate number of Blue and Yellow.

Even in FLL, you’ve got MIA just a short drive down 95 with loads of options.

 

[upup89]

I don't know how this thing turns out, my gut says it goes through.

But if you read the actual legal complaint, it's less about removing competition than it is removing a majority of the ULCC seats from the market and replacing them with fewer higher fare seats. This will also be the first merger at least that I can remember, where the CEO of the acquiring airline went on record several times stating he doesn't believe the merger would gain approval from regulators.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[Baronman]

I don't know how this thing turns out, my gut says it goes through.

But if you read the actual legal complaint, it's less about removing competition than it is removing a majority of the ULCC seats from the market and replacing them with fewer higher fare seats. This will also be the first merger at least that I can remember, where the CEO of the acquiring airline went on record several times stating he doesn't believe the merger would gain approval from regulators.

Interesting times ahead.

So it’s the government‘s job to make sure ULCC seats remain available? I wasn’t aware this is why we have government.

 

[Skåning]

Since the Delta/ Northwest, Continental/ United, American/ U.S. Airways and AirTran/ Southwest mergers were allowed it's hard to see why this one shouldn't be.

I know the Virgin America/Alaskan merger was forgettable!

 

[Hiboglossi]

I know the Virgin America/Alaskan merger was forgettable!

Both pre-merger airlines were smaller than JetBlue is today.

 

[derg]

If they want to merge, let them merge. The "Big Four" have little to worry about as they're slightly different markets.

You can surround my Starbucks on every corner with Dunkin Donuts and I'll still go to Starbucks. FIGHT ME!

Mergers are never about more service at lower prices.