Filing below a MEA

[meritflyer]

There seems to be some debate amongst some fellow CFIs about whether it's legal to file for an altitude that is below the MEA pending that you can use your IFR-certificed GPS to fly the airway.

What say the JC crowd?

 

[tgrayson]

§ 91.177 Minimum altitudes for IFR operations.

(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below—
(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this chapter. However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but not below, the MOCA, provided the applicable navigation signals are available. For aircraft using VOR for navigation, this applies only when the aircraft is within 22 nautical miles of that VOR (based on the reasonable estimate by the pilot operating the aircraft of that distance); or
(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this chapter, then—
(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area in part 95 of this chapter, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or
(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown.
(b) Climb. Climb to a higher minimum IFR altitude shall begin immediately after passing the point beyond which that minimum altitude applies, except that when ground obstructions intervene, the point beyond which that higher minimum altitude applies shall be crossed at or above the applicable MCA.

 

[CFIT99]

now the enroute charts has a GPS altitude...they will have a "G" next to the altitude (ie. 4500G )

so signal reception isn't required (b/c they can't guarantee it past 22 miles) but you can still file and use it of course if you have a IFR cert. GPS

 

[tgrayson]

now the enroute charts has a GPS altitude...they will have a "G" next to the altitude (ie. 4500G )

The chart users guide says that's for high altitude enroute only. Do you know differently?

 

[CFIT99]

nope its on the low enroute, ...I don't see many of em, mainly out west in the mountains. [unless im wrong but I talked about this with a student and another instructor the other day }

 

[BillPerryCFI]

There are quite a few GPS routes that you can file north of Phoenix. Mainly this is up north in the mountains where VOR's are sparse and signal coverage is minimal.

 

[meritflyer]

§ 91.177 Minimum altitudes for IFR operations.

(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below—
(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this chapter. However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but not below, the MOCA, provided the applicable navigation signals are available. For aircraft using VOR for navigation, this applies only when the aircraft is within 22 nautical miles of that VOR (based on the reasonable estimate by the pilot operating the aircraft of that distance); or
(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this chapter, then—
(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area in part 95 of this chapter, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or
(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown.
(b) Climb. Climb to a higher minimum IFR altitude shall begin immediately after passing the point beyond which that minimum altitude applies, except that when ground obstructions intervene, the point beyond which that higher minimum altitude applies shall be crossed at or above the applicable MCA.

When did the mention of 'applicable navigation signals' make its way into the regs?

 

[tgrayson]

When did the mention of 'applicable navigation signals' make its way into the regs?

August 6, 2007. I didn't know it had changed, either, which is why I try to always refer to the actual regulation before commenting. Here's the old text:

{Beginning of old text revised June 7, 2007, effective August 6, 2007}
(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below -
(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in Parts 95 and 97 of this chapter; or
(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in those parts -
(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area in part 95, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or
(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown.

However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but not below, the MOCA, when within 22 nautical miles of the VOR concerned (based on the pilot's reasonable estimate of that distance).​

 

[N18040]

So 91.177 says when it is okay to actually fly below the MEA, but is it also okay to file that, or should you file the MEA, then request lower with ATC?

 

[Barty]

So 91.177 says when it is okay to actually fly below the MEA, but is it also okay to file that, or should you file the MEA, then request lower with ATC?

You can file whatever you want, however 7110.65 puts a couple of other requirements on controllers to clear you to fly a MOCA.


4-5-6(a)

a. An aircraft may be cleared below the MEA but not below the MOCA for the route segment being flown if the altitude assigned is at least 300 feet above the floor of controlled airspace and one of the
following conditions are met:

1. Nonradar procedures are used only within
22 miles of a VOR, VORTAC, or TACAN.

2. Radar procedures are used only when an
operational advantage is realized and the following
actions are taken:
(a) Radar navigational guidance is provided
until the aircraft is within 22 miles of the NAVAID,
and
(b) Lost communications instructions are
issued.

Simply put a controller has to be able to keep you in radar contact if you choose to fly the MOCA beyond 22nm from the NAVAID. At least the way it reads right now, there is no provision for GPS. Practically speaking, at the MOCA you also may not be able to maintain 2 way radio communications, which will require a climb to the MEA anyway.

 

[jdlilfan]

I routinely file below the MEA. For instance V171 in Southern Indiana is 10,000 ft. I know there are no mountains in Indiana and 10,000 feet is a bit out of reach for a c172. There are a few other really high MEA's in mid/ eastern Illinois as well. It is mostly because there is not adequate VOR coverage on some of those routes in the lower altitudes.

 

[BajtheJino]

So 91.177 says when it is okay to actually fly below the MEA, but is it also okay to file that, or should you file the MEA, then request lower with ATC?

I've done it quite a bit in the past. File for the altitude you want. Don't do one thing then another to get where you originally wanted to be.

 

[ozziecat35]

I routinely file below the MEA. For instance V171 in Southern Indiana is 10,000 ft. I know there are no mountains in Indiana and 10,000 feet is a bit out of reach for a c172. There are a few other really high MEA's in mid/ eastern Illinois as well. It is mostly because there is not adequate VOR coverage on some of those routes in the lower altitudes.

On my IFR long XC I cruised from GEU (Phoenix) to PSP at 10,000. We filed for 8 but LA wanted us higher....Course there's a big difference between AZ/CA and Southern Indiana...