Curious as to some controller operational differences.
U90 Class C, when I depart either TUS or DMA airfields as a helo, I stay about 1000-1500 Agl, which keeps me below the outer shelf of the Class C. That way, outside of 5 miles, I can just cancel with tower and be done and on my way. My questions with this are as follows, as well as a comparison later on here:
1. Some tower controllers ask as I’m nearing the edge of the surface area “would you like to talk to radar?” To which I answer no, and the tower controller cancels me there and clears me to squawk and change to tactical.
However, other tower controllers give me a frequency change to departure without asking me if I want to talk to radar; and when I decline it, am told “I’m required to have you off, you cancel with them”
why the difference?
2. when talking to departure control when outbound, by this time I’m underneath the outer shelf of the Class C. I make a radio call of “clear to the [insert cardinal direction]”; to which I will get a response to squawk and change and radar service terminated from some controllers.
And a few other controllers will tell me “just remain with me, I need to hold on to you for the next X miles then I’ll release you”. Yet, I’m underneath their airspace shelf, and about to go outside the lateral confines of their airspace, and there’s no traffic around. Why are they holding on to me, when my objective is to drop ATC as soon as I can so I can devote my time to the tactical radios? Why do they want to keep me around, in airspace that isn’t even in their area of responsibility?
By way of comparison, P50…..PHX Class B….their TRACON doesn’t want to talk to a helo for anything, unless it’s requesting a practice instrument approach that part of it impinges on some part of the Class B. Otherwise, they don’t seemingly want anything to do with us since they are usually busy.
Even PHX tower wants to minimize the comms. A few years back, the oval shape of the Class B surface area that surrounded KPHX, was changed to a “bowtie” shape. That allowed helos and even light fixed wing to fly much closer to the middle of KPHX in the north and south sides of the center of the airport…..below the shelf and almost up to the edge of the airport. For helipads and such located in these areas, this much reduced the radio traffic of helos calling for takeoff and landings from pads that weren’t even physically on the airport, even though there are a few on the sides of the bowtie still, but the workload of PHX tower to VFR helos was greatly reduced.
Why does U90 want to hang on to every VFR helo seemingly; and P50 appears to be not at all be interested in talking to routine helo ops, if at all possible? Such a 180 degree difference in operational philosophy.
U90 Class C, when I depart either TUS or DMA airfields as a helo, I stay about 1000-1500 Agl, which keeps me below the outer shelf of the Class C. That way, outside of 5 miles, I can just cancel with tower and be done and on my way. My questions with this are as follows, as well as a comparison later on here:
1. Some tower controllers ask as I’m nearing the edge of the surface area “would you like to talk to radar?” To which I answer no, and the tower controller cancels me there and clears me to squawk and change to tactical.
However, other tower controllers give me a frequency change to departure without asking me if I want to talk to radar; and when I decline it, am told “I’m required to have you off, you cancel with them”
why the difference?
2. when talking to departure control when outbound, by this time I’m underneath the outer shelf of the Class C. I make a radio call of “clear to the [insert cardinal direction]”; to which I will get a response to squawk and change and radar service terminated from some controllers.
And a few other controllers will tell me “just remain with me, I need to hold on to you for the next X miles then I’ll release you”. Yet, I’m underneath their airspace shelf, and about to go outside the lateral confines of their airspace, and there’s no traffic around. Why are they holding on to me, when my objective is to drop ATC as soon as I can so I can devote my time to the tactical radios? Why do they want to keep me around, in airspace that isn’t even in their area of responsibility?
By way of comparison, P50…..PHX Class B….their TRACON doesn’t want to talk to a helo for anything, unless it’s requesting a practice instrument approach that part of it impinges on some part of the Class B. Otherwise, they don’t seemingly want anything to do with us since they are usually busy.
Even PHX tower wants to minimize the comms. A few years back, the oval shape of the Class B surface area that surrounded KPHX, was changed to a “bowtie” shape. That allowed helos and even light fixed wing to fly much closer to the middle of KPHX in the north and south sides of the center of the airport…..below the shelf and almost up to the edge of the airport. For helipads and such located in these areas, this much reduced the radio traffic of helos calling for takeoff and landings from pads that weren’t even physically on the airport, even though there are a few on the sides of the bowtie still, but the workload of PHX tower to VFR helos was greatly reduced.
Why does U90 want to hang on to every VFR helo seemingly; and P50 appears to be not at all be interested in talking to routine helo ops, if at all possible? Such a 180 degree difference in operational philosophy.