SWA vs UAL... FIGHT

[///AMG]

Some people wanna work a ton, some not so much. I feel like there is room for both mindsets to not only peacefully coexist, but also be mutually beneficial to one another. Personally I have been enjoying max time off. If there were anything in OT, I'd probably pick stuff up because I don't know what to do with myself anymore when I have time off (like true time off, working no other job). Which is probably a problem. Maybe next month will give me a chance to rediscover what a bunch of actual days off mean, or how to enjoy them. It's been a very very long time, probably since college or even early flight school since I've had a real strings of days off with no strings attached.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Some people wanna work a ton, some not so much. I feel like there is room for both mindsets to not only peacefully coexist, but also be mutually beneficial to one another. Personally I have been enjoying max time off. If there were anything in OT, I'd probably pick stuff up because I don't know what to do with myself anymore when I have time off (like true time off, working no other job). Which is probably a problem. Maybe next month will give me a chance to rediscover what a bunch of actual days off mean, or how to enjoy them. It's been a very very long time, probably since college or even early flight school since I've had a real strings of days off with no strings attached.

Yeah, screw that. I don’t even like having one job. Don’t know how you do it.

 

[derg]

LMLTO. Demand it!

Less Money, Less Time Off!

MMMTO became MMLTO+brag on insta.

 

[derg]

Yeah, screw that. I don’t even like having one job. Don’t know how you do it.

I kind of have three jobs at work, admittedly, but they're separate-ish.

I fell into the trap of "Let us show you the morons that applied for this" "Oh, eff those guys, I'll do it myself" LOL

 

[Richman]

That was literally the most bot-like “I”m not a bot” post ever.

Skynet is learning

 

[Richman]

Nailed it.

It's generational. In the 90's we'd brag about how little we worked. Today, people brag about how MUCH they work.

The company thanks you for your efforts.

In all seriousness….somehow from the 1970s, where US “productivity” was positively French like, and a small 3/2 home with kids in state school was just fine. From there we morphed into a work to death, available 24/7 “if I don’t do this the boss will be mad” at all costs mantra along with seemingly societally induced conspicuous way-overconsumption. To add insult to injury, somehow we got convinced that funding our own retirements in a way that not only serves the machine that drives us, but forces us to remain “productive” well past the point where the only thing we should be worrying about which episode of Matlock is on MeTV.

The whole cost of health care and education are unrelated, and aren’t even different sides of the same coin. They’re the same side.

 

[killbilly]

I guess I'm one of those weird guys who wants to work more, but I don't consider it a flex. But I come at this from a different angle than most of you who have been flying in one form or other for your entire careers, so it's not that unusual. I have my first line next month and it's got a fat gap of time off that, honestly, I don't have enough going to fill without getting bored. Maybe that makes me a lower-quality human for wanting to pick up some extra work to make some extra money. Right now, I need it. <shrug>

It became very fashionable in the 2000-teens for a tech company, having gone public, to offer Unlimited PTO to the employees. On the surface, a progressive move looking like a kinder and gentler aspect of Good Leading the Way (see what I did there?)

And, to be faaaaaaaaaiiiiir, it was kind of nice to have working under the umbrella of "if the work gets done, take all the time off you want."

Which no one did. Because at the same time they also started making RSUs (Restricted Stock Units) a major portion of compensation packages. Which meant that you were now incentivized to book that ninth conference call that day to try and work toward closing a deal that you were desperate to pull for that quarter, and you knew if you pushed back the vacation the family would understand. At least I could call the boss on Wednesday and say, "yeah, I need to take this Friday off, thanks." That happened once in a while.

And, the Unlimited PTO, seen as a terrific cultural aspect on Glassdoor, was, in fact, a nice accounting move, because by not having any PTO assigned to the employees, said public company didn't have to carry it as a liability on the balance sheet. I always thought it was kind of a brilliant move.

I know you guys are cynical about airlines and airline management, but I guarantee Silicon Valley modeled and tested all of it before Kirby, Bastian, Bethune, et al got their hands on this stuff.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I guess I'm one of those weird guys who wants to work more, but I don't consider it a flex. But I come at this from a different angle than most of you who have been flying in one form or other for your entire careers, so it's not that unusual. I have my first line next month and it's got a fat gap of time off that, honestly, I don't have enough going to fill without getting bored. Maybe that makes me a lower-quality human for wanting to pick up some extra work to make some extra money. Right now, I need it. <shrug>

It became very fashionable in the 2000-teens for a tech company, having gone public, to offer Unlimited PTO to the employees. On the surface, a progressive move looking like a kinder and gentler aspect of Good Leading the Way (see what I did there?)

And, to be faaaaaaaaaiiiiir, it was kind of nice to have working under the umbrella of "if the work gets done, take all the time off you want."

Which no one did. Because at the same time they also started making RSUs (Restricted Stock Units) a major portion of compensation packages. Which meant that you were now incentivized to book that ninth conference call that day to try and work toward closing a deal that you were desperate to pull for that quarter, and you knew if you pushed back the vacation the family would understand. At least I could call the boss on Wednesday and say, "yeah, I need to take this Friday off, thanks." That happened once in a while.

And, the Unlimited PTO, seen as a terrific cultural aspect on Glassdoor, was, in fact, a nice accounting move, because by not having any PTO assigned to the employees, said public company didn't have to carry it as a liability on the balance sheet. I always thought it was kind of a brilliant move.

I know you guys are cynical about airlines and airline management, but I guarantee Silicon Valley modeled and tested all of it before Kirby, Bastian, Bethune, et al got their hands on this stuff.

It’s very different to pick stuff up because a) you’re new and still getting used to a new gig or 2) because adulting is hard and you need the money.

I think the people we are making fun of either have no identity other than being Mr. Airline Pilot or have gotten themselves into a situation with ex wives and Porsches that they NEED to work as much as possible.

Like I said, I still enjoy my job but physically and mentally it kicks my ass if I haven’t gotten enough recovery time. That leads very quickly to burnout.

 

[killbilly]

It’s very different to pick stuff up because a) you’re new and still getting used to a new gig or 2) because adulting is hard and you need the money.

I think the people we are making fun of either have no identity other than being Mr. Airline Pilot or have gotten themselves into a situation with ex wives and Porsches that they NEED to work as much as possible.

Like I said, I still enjoy my job but physically and mentally it kicks my ass if I haven’t gotten enough recovery time. That leads very quickly to burnout.

Fair points - I need the same things you do. It's just at this point, I don't know where those boundaries completely are yet, and I'm learning as I go. Like, so far, I've found that transcon redeyes don't hurt as much as I thought they would. I suppose that could change as time wears on. And, once I'm bringing home closer to what I was making before I switched, I'll feel like taking my foot off the gas some.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I’m glad it’s working out for you. But those complaints are legit. A guy with 23 yrs seniority in SEA couldn’t be awarded a max credit line to get 85-93 hrs, well that is kinda messed up.

They had every option I did plus better seniority. Not sure how one could screw that up but OK.

 

[JordanD]

Yeah, screw that. I don’t even like having one job. Don’t know how you do it.

I do appreciate that I'm at a point in my career where picking up a trip has a more tangible result than "I just need any extra money I can get."
"I wanna buy (thing), if I pick up an easy two or three day trip that will pay for it and then some." I still rarely do it, but it kind of puts money and wants/needs in perspective a little more. Feels like an extraordinarily privileged thing to say, but I feel super lucky that's the case now.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Some people wanna work a ton, some not so much. I feel like there is room for both mindsets to not only peacefully coexist, but also be mutually beneficial to one another. Personally I have been enjoying max time off. If there were anything in OT, I'd probably pick stuff up because I don't know what to do with myself anymore when I have time off (like true time off, working no other job). Which is probably a problem. Maybe next month will give me a chance to rediscover what a bunch of actual days off mean, or how to enjoy them. It's been a very very long time, probably since college or even early flight school since I've had a real strings of days off with no strings attached.

Different career field but I didn't take voluntary OT my last 3.5 years or so at 911 (although there were a few forced shifts when my turn came 'round). I far preferred being at home and not dealing with the drama to the extra cash

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

They had every option I did plus better seniority. Not sure how one could screw that up but OK.

I think people are finding out, unlike VX PBS where you could actually set your own credit threshold value, setting max credit here is still involving some magic mumbo jumbo.

2 guys can bid max credit, and the junior guy can get 82 hrs while the senior guy got 75. Just the way PBS had trips awarded to that particular guy at that particular time. Not cool, IMO.


All depends how you bid. Maybe that junior guy only bid 3-days worth 15:45

4 of those would be 63. It would have to give one more to go above 70, and he would get 78:45
Whereas the senior guy maybe bid day trips, and got just barely above 70 and the system stopped - it didn’t give him the additional grip to go above that higher.


Yeah, I think that’s a legit gripe. Before a junior guy gets 78+, that senior guy should have had one more day trip to get to 78.


Just IMO. It is what it is. My point is, the gripe is legitimate.

 

[bimmerphile]

I think people are finding out, unlike VX PBS where you could actually set your own credit threshold value, setting max credit here is still involving some magic mumbo jumbo.

2 guys can bid max credit, and the junior guy can get 82 hrs while the senior guy got 75. Just the way PBS had trips awarded to that particular guy at that particular time. Not cool, IMO.


All depends how you bid. Maybe that junior guy only bid 3-days worth 15:45

4 of those would be 63. It would have to give one more to go above 70, and he would get 78:45
Whereas the senior guy maybe bid day trips, and got just barely above 70 and the system stopped - it didn’t give him the additional grip to go above that higher.


Yeah, I think that’s a legit gripe. Before a junior guy gets 78+, that senior guy should have had one more day trip to get to 78.


Just IMO. It is what it is. My point is, the gripe is legitimate.

does your pbs have min/avg/max windows? or just a min to max?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

does your pbs have min/avg/max windows? or just a min to max?

You can set mine or a max window.


There are 23+ yr seniority CAs in SEA who couldn’t be awarded max window. In LA, I asked for max but was denied. About half the guys requesting max in LA were not honored that.

 

[///AMG]

I think there were somewhere near single digit max credit awards given to SEA CA's, of which there are 700+. Maybe double digits, but it wasn't much.

 

[bimmerphile]

You can set mine or a max window.


There are 23+ yr seniority CAs in SEA who couldn’t be awarded max window. In LA, I asked for max but was denied. About half the guys requesting max in LA were not honored that.

so what’s the credit range on the max window?
what did the 23yr CAs preference ahead of max credit?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

so what’s the credit range on the max window?
what did the 23yr CAs preference ahead of max credit?

It’s different by each base, seat. For LA CAs, only 26 / 68 max credit requests were honored.

Right now, the problem is lack of deliveries of MAXes following the door blowout FAA oversight of Boeing, overstaffed this year for planes that aren’t coming, therefore spreading flying over more pilots = depressed line values.


Hey, beats downgrades and furloughs.

 

[derg]

I thought you were crediting 100’s of hours per month to make millions per year?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I thought you were crediting 100’s of hours per month to make millions per year?

So is that you admitting you were wrong on “having to first get a job that pays $500k”