Just some advice...

[Phil Schuyler]

I think the take-away here is that interview prep starts long before you get called for an interview. Have a clean and pressed suit hanging in your closet. Have your logbooks up to date, always! Have originals and copies of all appropriate documentation ready to go. And ideally you've been preparing for those interview technical questions since the day you took your first flying lesson.

When someone asks "what have you done to further your career today?", you should always be able to say "I am prepared for an opportunity that has yet to present itself"

 

[ChasenSFO]

Agreed. Again, great learning points. But as you said, maybe you mentally didn't want the job or the extra work (2nd job essentially) and hence didn't put the 100% effort out. Kind of an "if I get it, I get it...whatever"? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'd hope your friend doesn't/didn't take any personal offense from (possibly?) having to feel like he had to do some unplanned damage control?

Quite the opposite, my friend was very apologetic and hoping I wasn't mad at him since he technically had 50% of the decision. Of course he knows that's not the case at all.

But you're right. As soon as I found out they wanted 20-30 hours a week but over 5 days of the week(I currently do 40 in 4 days), I was very iffy. No doubt it took away some of my motivation.

 

[MikeD]

You sound like the right guy for the right job, but the path to it went through a minion on a head trip. People like her are everywhere in the world - blueshirts who make elderly, disabled passengers strip down, DPEs who bust candidates because they can, teachers who write tests with "four oh busters" just to keep bright, hard working students from getting to 100%.

You're the better man. Do all the paperwork next time and get there early.

Regardless, that's the game. Those are the cards you're dealt. Unfortunately whether you, me, or anyone thinks he's the better man for the job, if he doesn't go forth and demonstrate it, then none of that matters.

I think his own assessment of not really wanting the job in the first place is probably accurate. And with regards to the showing late, first impressions are indeed lasting ones. Someone can be the nicest, friendliest person in the world in the interview and do great on it, but if HR sees them to be late and isn't sure that won't be a trend.....well.

My point is, don't blame HR on this one. Chasen has placed the blame squarely where it belongs, on himself. And that's honorable. It was his job to either earn, or not earn. If he'd placed his best foot forward and done everything on his end, then sure, gripe then about HR. Until then, it's difficult to have a moral case against them.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

I was late to my Hawaiian interview because... of Hawaii... did I ever tell you that story @ChasenSFO ?

 

[ChasenSFO]

I was late to my Hawaiian interview because... of Hawaii... did I ever tell you that story @ChasenSFO ?

Don't think you did, might as well share it.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

WELL!

2nd interview (the one where you're pretty much already hired, just some psych tests and the pee test)
6:30am shared ride van bound for the airport, from Waikiki. Should be greatly on-time for an 8am round 2 right?
Hop in the van at 6:20am. GREAT! The guy is early, maybe I can make a starbucks run...

We start going to some different hotels, waiting on lazy guests to get their rears downstairs
...

...

7:15am I finally ask the driver, "Hey, so when are we finally going to get heading toward the airport?"
He looks at me with a blank stare, and asks "When is your flight?"
I told him I had an 8am interview...
"Oh bruddah, you no make dat! We still got two stops, and da traffic on da H1!"

Huh?

"Um, I need to be there by 8am... That's why I booked this van for 6:30am"
I ended up getting out and taking a taxi...

So now on H1, a monsoon arrives- this is like the Buffalo-blizzard-style rain that creeps up on you. My driver's wipers aren't working, so he decides to pull over and "wait it out."

-yelling ensues- along with my offer of an extra $20 if he drove like a NYer.

I finally get him to continue driving, and beep his horn (which is a total taboo in Hawaii).

Call HR at Hawaiian and get a very nice secretary, who changes her voice when I inform her of my impending tardiness- I estimated about 15 minutes late. Explained the whole situation. "Oh, well in that case we won't be able to hire you. But stop by anyway because we still have a few forms to sign before we see you off." I didn't panic, but started to find the whole situation a bit laughable.

Eventually around 8:10, I got dropped off on the WRONG SIDE of the HQ building. No one was there to let me in, and I was being soaked by the continuing monsoon. I called again...

"I'm here! But I'm lost. The door seems to be locked!"
"Yes, you're on the wrong side... The front desk person doesn't get in until 9. Can you walk around to the other side?"
"???????"

Finally someone comes upstairs to fetch me. By this time, I look like I've gone for a swim in the Ala Wai... I'm lead to the room where the members of what is to be my new hire class are sitting. Sit down next to this dude who exclaims "You know you're late?" I drip on my paperwork, thinking: what a jerk!

That guy ends up being my sim partner AND very close friend.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yeah, honestly I thought it was just a heads up, "Hey, we're gonna pee test you and then dig into the last 10 years of your life". But I see why they do it, and she made sure not to give my buddy the heads up either. Live and learn.

I've never liked it but I always expect this every time I put my suit on and interview for aviation.

 

[Roger Roger]

WELL!

2nd interview (the one where you're pretty much already hired, just some psych tests and the pee test)
6:30am shared ride van bound for the airport, from Waikiki. Should be greatly on-time for an 8am round 2 right?
Hop in the van at 6:20am. GREAT! The guy is early, maybe I can make a starbucks run...

We start going to some different hotels, waiting on lazy guests to get their rears downstairs
...

...

7:15am I finally ask the driver, "Hey, so when are we finally going to get heading toward the airport?"
He looks at me with a blank stare, and asks "When is your flight?"
I told him I had an 8am interview...
"Oh bruddah, you no make dat! We still got two stops, and da traffic on da H1!"

Huh?

"Um, I need to be there by 8am... That's why I booked this van for 6:30am"
I ended up getting out and taking a taxi...

So now on H1, a monsoon arrives- this is like the Buffalo-blizzard-style rain that creeps up on you. My driver's wipers aren't working, so he decides to pull over and "wait it out."

-yelling ensues- along with my offer of an extra $20 if he drove like a NYer.

I finally get him to continue driving, and beep his horn (which is a total taboo in Hawaii).

Call HR at Hawaiian and get a very nice secretary, who changes her voice when I inform her of my impending tardiness- I estimated about 15 minutes late. Explained the whole situation. "Oh, well in that case we won't be able to hire you. But stop by anyway because we still have a few forms to sign before we see you off." I didn't panic, but started to find the whole situation a bit laughable.

Eventually around 8:10, I got dropped off on the WRONG SIDE of the HQ building. No one was there to let me in, and I was being soaked by the continuing monsoon. I called again...

"I'm here! But I'm lost. The door seems to be locked!"
"Yes, you're on the wrong side... The front desk person doesn't get in until 9. Can you walk around to the other side?"
"???????"

Finally someone comes upstairs to fetch me. By this time, I look like I've gone for a swim in the Ala Wai... I'm lead to the room where the members of what is to be my new hire class are sitting. Sit down next to this dude who exclaims "You know you're late?" I drip on my paperwork, thinking: what a jerk!

That guy ends up being my sim partner AND very close friend.

Love it! Never been to Hawaii but that pretty much confirms everything I've ever heard about island culture.

 

[Dan208B]

@ChasenSFO Lots of lessons to be learned from this but it's really big of you to tell your story no matter what mistakes you may have made in order for others to learn from it. Thanks for doing the right thing and being what this networking group is all about. I think wherever you end up you will be successful.

 

[HRDiva]

I'm sorry you experienced this, although it sounds as if it might not have been the perfect job anyway.

Being late is a big issue, especially if you don't call them. Not following instructions is a big issue. Until May, our online recruiting system only allowed one document to be uploaded. I wanted a cover letter, resume and a list of 3 professional references. So I asked them to merge them into a single document. I stated in bold italics that applications that failed to fulfill that would not be considered. I asked questions and the last was, "have you created a single document with your resume, cover letter and list of references?". People would reply "yes" and upload a document that was only their resume.

I immediately rejected them. Not only did they not follow instructions, but they thumbed their nose.

Now the system allows for multiple documents. I still get just a resume. And I reject them.

You only get one chance to make a great first impression.

 

[JustinS]

Man I'm sorry to hear that. I was really hoping to hear a "I got the job!" Something better will come along I'm sure. You have the right attitude, and the right mindset. You live and learn.

I think it has been said here before, luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

 

[nosehair]

When I was Chief Instructor at a large flight school, I learned that the single most important element of a potential instructor (employee) is his/her ability to show up on time.
Other deficiencies can be handled, but tardiness somehow was an indication of an on-going problem of an individual's ability to produce.

 

[wayway8]

Great write up and sense of accountability!

 

[pullup]

Next time just sleep with the HR lady.

 

[cezzna]

My take:
1) You've taken responsibility for your shortcomings
2) All of this post failure analysis comes off as handwringing, sympathy playing. I don't think this is your intention, think you are trying to pass on a lesson.
3) Do people really need so much positive reinforcement for essentially living life, making mistakes, learning and moving on?
4) millennials *need* for continuous positive reinforcement just to exist in life drives me flipping mad.

 

[killbilly]

My take:
1) You've taken responsibility for your shortcomings
2) All of this post failure analysis comes off as handwringing, sympathy playing. I don't think this is your intention, think you are trying to pass on a lesson.
3) Do people really need so much positive reinforcement for essentially living life, making mistakes, learning and moving on?
4) millennials *need* for continuous positive reinforcement just to exist in life drives me flipping mad.

Do you really need to pontificate about "all millenials" from some imagined position of superiority?

 

[cezzna]

Do you really need to pontificate about "all millenials" from some imagined position of superiority?

Typical. Constructive criticism not possible without it being construed as character assassination. I'm just trying to provide feedback that isn't a continuous outpouring of sympathy. I have no illusion to being superior. My character and generation have just as many shortcomings.

 

[killbilly]

Typical. Constructive criticism not possible without it being construed as character assassination. I'm just trying to provide feedback that isn't a continuous outpouring of sympathy. I have no illusion to being superior. My character and generation have just as many shortcomings.

As does mine.

Your post was tone-deaf. I don't deny that items 1 and 2 could have conveyed constructive ideas, but you didn't communicate that. Items 3 and 4 were totally unnecessary.

Just as you posit that he didn't intend to come off the way he did, I suspect you don't intend to come off in your post that way either.

EDIT - My bad. Item 1 was clearly a constructive observation.

 

[mastermags]

Next time just sleep with the HR lady.

It's a man, baby!

 

[pullup]

It's a man, baby!

Then that's a perfect barometer of how bad one wants a job.